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Server Time: 9/7/2008 8:43:00 PM PACIFIC |
 Couple of hand questions, Robbins, 14. Aug 2003 16:12 | ||
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| In Hold-Em $3/$6 LOOSE Table 1. I have a KJo and I call a raise. 2. I have a 87s and I call a raise. Are these appropriate plays? Thanks in advance! | ||
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| Re: Couple of hand questions, Jav, 14. Aug 2003 17:06 | ||
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| I think calling the raise with the suited connector is probably less bad, but I think throwing both of those hands away is a +EV play. With the K,Jo, you have a good chance of flopping something that might cause you to go to the river with the 2nd best hand; which is very costly. You could get away from the suited connector easier, but if you do hit with it you would win a large pot. Obviously position will matter as well. | ||
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| Re: Couple of hand questions, chasepoker, 14. Aug 2003 17:28 | ||
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| Depends massivley on your position and how many other people are in the pot but i would not get into the habit of a) calling raises pre flop b) calling raises with KJo, it is garbage in a full game. What was your position and how many people did you anticiapte in the pot ? Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: Couple of hand questions, 4 POKER, 14. Aug 2003 18:06 | ||
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| Generally KJ offsuit is not a good hand to call a raise with, especially in a poor (EP) position. If the game is really loose, it also can be aggresive as well, and you don't want to be putting in multiple bets with either one of those hands. And if the game is tight and there's a raise to you, than KJ off is total garbage! I'd rather try to steal with that hand if I could or limp in cheaply from a good position in a game that was not aggresive but rather passive. Now, if you're on or near the button, the 8-7 suited hand can be playable for one raise if you feel that the blinds are not too aggresive of players. The hand does well with volume, especially if you play your hands well......but the KJo hand does not play well with too many callers, and it's probably going to play better with just one, maybe two opponents. Too many times KJ will be dominated by higher kickers and IMO it's a better steal type hand when in the right position then it is to "call" a raise with. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Couple of hand questions, Andrew Wells, 14. Aug 2003 19:26 | ||
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| Both hands are insufficient to call a raise from a typical player, no matter how loose the table is. Let's look instead at the raise coming from someone who often makes this play with many starting hands. Even though the constant hyperaggressive raiser is playing sub-optimal poker, such a strategy has one major benefit. This is in getting everyone else to play into a style that player is comfortable and much more familiar with. Usually someone will challenge and try to isolate on a wild raiser by making it three bets. The idea being to take what may be a better starting hand heads-up after the flop. Most players won't get involved in this confrontation after the reraise (seeing that the action is likely to get capped), without a premium hand. Therefore to play you usually want no one else to have already called the raise cold, since they are unlikely to release before the flop. Furthermore since the pot will be inflated, they are justified in staying for almost any piece of the flop. So let's look at KJo and 87s provided you are in late position, are against a loose raise (even on a loose table), no one else has called two bets cold, and there was no solid player limping from early position in front of the raiser. You may still decide to throw them both away, but if you are going to play you need to make it three bets. Calling a raise cold is something that you might do with some big suited cards like AJs or KQs since these hands have some extra flexibility by playing okay both heads up and against several opponents. With KJo and 87s unless you hit the flop hard should there be another player involved along with the loose aggressive raiser, you need to be prepared to let go. It takes some experience to fold something like top pair kings, and that is also what the aggressive player is counting on. So you need to put some doubt in such a player's mind from the very beginning. The effective way to do that when you have position is to make it three bets before the flop. You make it three bets also because there is a reasonable chance that you can get it heads-up on the flop even though it will probably be capped. If you flop one pair (given that the raiser is often playing with weaker hands), you are - more often than not - the favorite. Now whether to play back at your opponent or just call down is up to you. | ||
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| Re: Couple of hand questions, stdioh, 15. Aug 2003 10:01 | ||
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| Depends on your position and how many players are in the hand. In general, cold calling a raise preflop with KJ is a really bad idea because if you hit your hand, chances are very good that you'll be behind. With suited connectors you're not trying to hit a pair, so it's ok to call, but only if there are a lot of people in the hand. For instance if you're on the puck with 6s7s and the cutoff opens for a raise you should fold it, but if you're on the puck with 6s7s and 3 players limp, then the cutoff raises, you can call and see a flop, since you're getting pot odds to try to flop a good draw. | ||
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| Re: Couple of hand questions, LJH, 16. Aug 2003 06:14 | ||
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| ROBBIINS, AS THE EXPERTS SAY, IT ALL DEPENDS, BUT IT SOUNDS AS IF YOU ARE PALYING WAY TO LOOSE. LJH | ||
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