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Server Time: 12/1/2008 11:26:11 PM PACIFIC |
 tips for being a better large stack player, jdsalinger, 14. Aug 2003 11:46 | ||
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| need some help from the people that play lots of NL ring or big tourneys. Well I'm a good short to medium large stack player but once I get to a really large stack and another player has me almost covered then things get a little dicey for me. I average a good ~$30hr in the sit n go single or 2 table tourneys but in these tourneys you never end up with a really large stack. I'm not a bad really large stack player but I'm definitely not a good really large stack player | ||
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| Re: tips for being a better large stack player, Bond18, 14. Aug 2003 15:37 | ||
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| My personal preference when im a big stack or chip leader is to tighten up, so what if a few medium stacks grab your blinds in the middle rounds as long as you get to the money right? Plus when the short stacks (if their watching) may see your right play and push in on you with weak hands, which can be profitable when you catch something worth calling on. | ||
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| Re: tips for being a better large stack player, chasepoker, 14. Aug 2003 16:01 | ||
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| I would completly disagree with Bond here when i am a large stack i push all the edges i have if no one else is in the pot i auto raise from late position ( depending on stack sizes behind me of course ), When you have a large stack you can afford to gamble on potential coin flip situations ( if you are leading the betting as people will not call bets for all their stacks) Being a large stack is all about bullying people it takes a lot of tourny experience to do it well ( i am not saying that i do it well though ! ) but when you are a large stack you have a great chance to use it to make yourself more chips. Ask yourself how many times have you been a short / medium stack and the large stack is the one that is raising all the time and that AJ or 55 that you wanted to play suddenly becomes garbage when you are forced to play it all ? on 14. Aug 2003 15:37 Bond18 wrote: > My personal preference when im a big stack or chip leader is to tighten up, so what > if a few medium stacks grab your blinds in the middle rounds as long as you get to > the money right? Plus when the short stacks (if their watching) may see your right > play and push in on you with weak hands, which can be profitable when you catch > something worth calling on. Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: tips for being a better large stack player, Guru, 14. Aug 2003 18:42 | ||
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| I tend to agree with Chase on this one. When I'm the big stack I play much more aggressively. If there are small to medium stacks to my left, I'll raise more, especially in late position with no callers ahead of me. You can take more chances and force smaller stacks to commit large portions of their chips to draw. | ||
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| Re: tips for being a better large stack player, jdsalinger, 14. Aug 2003 20:01 | ||
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| I agree but on the internet you can't bully the stupid and 95% of the people on the internet consider a coin flip situation a good thing. The time I really bully is when there are a couple of small or medium stacks and it's bubble time so they are just waiting for somebody to bust. Then I start raising with anything | ||
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| Re: tips for being a better large stack player, Mark, 14. Aug 2003 22:32 | ||
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| Hi JD When i'm a big stack, i really like to pick on smaller stacks, the smaller the better. I will call in many marginal situations and semi-bluff alot against the smaller stacks. They tend to be desparate and call/bet with weak hands. This creates a very loose-agg image for me. But when i come up against a similar size stack (or at least someone who can do me some harm) i tighten up considerably. Becasue of my new loose image, the large stacks ( who are probably better players than the short stacks) will be much more willing to call me down. So agaisnt them i will not value bet, bluff or semi-bluff. I will also rarely call them down. But if i get a good hand against a big stack who thinks i'm loose, i will slow play or play similar to how i do against the short stacks and try to make a big pot. for example, in one tourny i was a big stack with a big stacked tight aggressive player to my left. he was staying away from me and I from him, but when he wasn't in a pot, I would be very aggressive. When ever i checked and he bet, i would fold. Through out the early stages of the tourny i was really being aggressive with the short stacks (always betting). I would either bet big or fold. This gave me a loose and straight forward image. Towards the end of the tournament i was still next to the tight aggressive player and we did not yet tangle with each other. Then he raised pre-flop and i called. I figured him for an over pair or big cards. When i flopped two pair on a ragged board, i checked. He bet expecting me to fold, but I raised him all-in. He called with a weak hand becasue he became pot committed due to his bet and was very confused by my check raise. Obviously this was the best possible scenario, but i did set it up perfectly. It was all possible due to my very aggressive (seeming) play and staying away from the big stack until i had a very good hand. I try to use this similar kind of set up for the big stacks when ever i can, and i find it quite good. I've been having success with it in medium size tournaments (20 -50 plyers). But it does not work well if the players are very tight (usually on the bubble in a high paying tournament) mark | ||
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| Re: tips for being a better large stack player, stdioh, 15. Aug 2003 10:26 | ||
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| The three tricks to being a large stack in a tourney are 1) tightness, 2) agression, and 3) caution. 1) tightness: You want to avoid playing any hands that are less than premium. There is no need to come in with small suited connectors or KJo at all. You want to pick your moments and then hammer them. 2) Agression: you know that your opponents chips are each worth more than your chips (the more you have the less they are worth) so you want to fold your opponents off a lot and make them dig deep into their pockets if they are going to come in. You want to make big raises with quality hands. Make pot sized bets and be willing to put shorter stacks all in. 3) Caution: a) don't butt heads with other big stacks. Stay out of their way when you can. You each want to feed off the small stacks, not eachother. b) Be prepared to get away from a hand too. If you make a pot bet on the flop with top pair, top kicker and your opponent moves all in on you - and isn't the sort to do that without something really good, don't allow your large chipstack to make you call when you shouldn't. Fold you hand and be done with it. Obviously if his all in is for a small amount more than the pot you can call it, but if there is 1000 in the pot, you bet 1000 out of your stack of 20,000 and the opponent comes back all in for 5000, why double him through you? Along with that you'll want to semibluff sometimes too. Lets say that you hold AK suited, raise preflop and get heads up. You catch a flush draw with overcards and the pot is half of your opponent's stack. Just shove all in. If your opponent isn't really strong then he'll fold and give you the pot. If he is strong you've got outs to your flush and possibly even to your overcards. This is how you can throw your weight around - with caution. The big stack who starts raising any ace or any pair preflop with giant bets, betting every flop, etc ... the incorrect way to throw your weight around, soon gets his ass handed to him. | ||
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| Re: tips for being a better large stack player, Mark, 15. Aug 2003 10:55 | ||
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| > 1) tightness: You want to avoid playing any hands that are less than premium. There > is no need to come in with small suited connectors or KJo at all. You want to pick > your moments and then hammer them. > Stdioh, I completely disagree about the need to be tight when you are a big stack, but this probably has alot to do with preferred playing style, as oppossed to correct theory. When I am big stacked i will see alot of flops (if the blinds are still relatively small to my stack) and will bet aggressively against small stacks. They will tend to fold all but great hands until they become desparate, and then they will call with garbage. Also, with position I will bluff short stacks out of pots with large bets. I have had alot of success with this. Mark | ||
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| Re: tips for being a better large stack player, stdioh, 15. Aug 2003 13:56 | ||
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| Agreed...this is a question of style. There are a lot of good ways to play a big stack. The thing is that if you don't know what you're doing playing loose on a big stack can ruin everything you've built fast. If I'm advising anybody how to play a big stack, my answer will be tight. If I'm playing it myself, it is usually still pretty tight, but it depends on my opponents and 100 different factors as to what I do. | ||
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| Re: tips for being a better large stack player, philly, 15. Aug 2003 11:27 | ||
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| For me, the greatest advantage to having the large stack is the ability to pick my spots. I don't think its necessary to be over aggressive, but when I do choose to play, I come out guns blazing. Of course everyone's style is different but that is what works for me. -He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight- -Sun Tzu- | ||
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| Re: tips for being a better large stack player, Mark, 15. Aug 2003 14:29 | ||
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| Good points, but i prefer a Brunsonian style, which is constantly aggressive (but still selective when i get played withh) "It comes to a point where you have to take a chance. If you want to be a winner - a big winner - at No-limit Hold'em... you can't play a solid, safe game. You must get in there and gamble." - Doyle Brunson "Those who excel at defense bury themselves away below the lowest depths of Earth. Those who excel at offense move from above the greatest hights of heaven." - Sun-tzu I agree that there are times to be selective and times to fold. But in general, i will see many flops and bet many hands when folded to me. When someone else shows strenght, if i have a great hand i can bust him, if i've got nothing i can easily fold. Mark | ||
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| Re: tips for being a better large stack player, MozMan, 15. Aug 2003 14:45 | ||
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| Remeber too, though, that Doyle makes a point that you have to have cinsistent agreessiveness in tournament play within the framework of NOT trying to win the tournament early. He is also an advocate of playing basically to survive until the final table, and then beating up everyone else who survived. Doyle's tourney theories also illustrates the point that you and stdioh agreed on earlier: that it has a lot to do with style. If you read Sklansky, he says basically that you don't have to change your ring game style (except as it applies to how your opponents are playing differently, as it applies to the freezout structure, and as it applies to ever-increasing blinds) while Brunson says you have to basically change your whole game. IMHO, they are both right, because it really depends on your playing style to start with. Sklansky is a noted tight/aggressive player, and this works well in tourney play to start with; Brunson describes himself as a loose/aggressive player and says he purposely adjusts that for tourney play to be tighter in hopes of surviving to the final table. -Moz "mmmm.... open faced club sand wedge." | ||
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| Re: tips for being a better large stack player, chasepoker, 15. Aug 2003 15:17 | ||
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| Also i think you should be careful to recognise that Brunson talks about playing in cash games rather then tournaments. I would be wary of just choosing one authors style or idea, i believe it is far better to read them all absorb what they say and play your own way. Chasepoker | ||
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