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Server Time: 9/5/2008 5:14:21 PM PACIFIC |
 Phil Ivey and Chris Moneymaker hand, Brian Benson, 13. Aug 2003 00:15 | ||
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| If this message has posted twice I apologize. Why did Phil Ivey stay in the hand with a pair of 9 when 2 queens were flopped? Didn't seem likely that Moneymaker had a queen? Was it that Moneymaker did not bet enough? Thanks for all replies! | ||
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| Re: Phil Ivey and Chris Moneymaker hand, chasepoker, 13. Aug 2003 05:03 | ||
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| Being over in the UK i dont get to see the WSOP :( so i dont know the hand / situation you are talking about, but if i held 99 in NL and the flop came QQx i would be tempted to bet it, the fact that 2 Queens come actually make it less likely that he has the Queen. Of course if he reraised i would think twice about playing ( depending on the size of the raise ) what i would more worried about was if he just called the bet !!!! Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: Phil Ivey and Chris Moneymaker hand, 4 POKER, 13. Aug 2003 05:09 | ||
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| Absolutely!...the two queens being out there make it a much easier call. | ||
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| Was Phil's call intentional?, Easy E, 13. Aug 2003 08:52 | ||
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| Meaning that, did Phil call the "reasonable" bet of 70K, thinking that CM might have a Queen or overcards or pair? the hidden full house opportunity, for a chance to double through Moneymaker, seemed to be something Phil Ivey would take a shot at.... Or am i reading to much into this? | ||
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| Re: Was Phil's call intentional?, shorn, 13. Aug 2003 09:26 | ||
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| I think that is exactly why he called: the combination of the facts that he had a decent pair, MM could have been bluffing with overcards (since he raised pre-flop), and that if he was bluffing, calling the underbet (which only risked like 12% of his stack) would either give him 2 shots at a 9 or allow him to play the turn with a lot of confidence (fold if he misses and MM bets, take a free card if MM checks, or bluff if MM checks which represents slowplaying a Queen). | ||
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| If I recall correctly. . ., Frank Grimes, 13. Aug 2003 06:34 | ||
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| In fact, Ivey had flopped a set of nines and Moneymaker made three queens on the turn not knowing that Ivey's nines full had him beat. Only when the board paired again (I believe a six on the river) did Moneymaker's Qs full beat Ivey's 9s full. | ||
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| Re: If I recall correctly. . ., Flatout_Mainiac, 13. Aug 2003 07:42 | ||
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| I think on the flop Moneymaker had a set of Q's and Ivey had the pocket nines with the pair of Q's on the board. Moneymaker lead with 70K the middle guy (Lester? I think but i'm not sure) folded his pp T's. Ivey called. The 9 came on the turn....Moneymaker put in 200k (I think). Ivey went all in and Moneymaker called. River was an ace that paired up Moneymaker's kicker for the bigger house. | ||
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| Re: If I recall correctly. . ., shorn, 13. Aug 2003 07:44 | ||
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| Nope. MM had AQo and Ivey had 99. The flop came Q6Q, and MM uncerbet the pot ($60k bet into $210k or so pot). So, Phil's decision likely was that he was getting 4.5 to 1 odds to double through if he hit (as the likelihood of MM holding QQ, Q6, or Q9 was small). If he didn't hit and MM bet again he flods. OR, if MM was bluffing and then checked the turn, he could either take the freebie or try and represent that he had the Queen. So, yes he wasn't getting proper oodds to call to hit his two outer (23-1), but the chance was good enough given the other factors to risk $60k out of his $470k or so stack to make it worth the chance. | ||
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| Re: If I recall correctly. . ., Frank Grimes, 13. Aug 2003 08:14 | ||
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| Ah, yes, that was the correct scenario. I thought Moneymaker's error there was making a relatively weak bet with the set of Qs which I can only guess was an attempt to extract more money rather than drive Ivey off the hand. In any case, an interesting hand that flipped back and forth very quickly. | ||
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| Re: Phil Ivey and Chris Moneymaker hand, noiseboy, 14. Aug 2003 09:41 | ||
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| I think Jason Lester had the right idea folding his TT's and Ivey should have done the same. I'm more afraid of a small bet on a flop with two QQ's than a bigger bet because it reaks of a slow play. If he were bluffing, or had a smaller piece of the flop, it seems like he would put in enought chips to give it a good chance of success. The 70K bet translates to "call me, pretty please." I'm sure Ivey was aware of this, but decided that MM's money was so deep that it was worth it to call in case he spiked the 9 and could double up and be in good chip position to win the whole deal. It's a case of "be careful what you wish for" because spiking his two outer was his downfall since Money still had some outs which he hit with all of Ivey's money in. | ||
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| Re: Phil Ivey and Chris Moneymaker hand, James Brooke, 15. Aug 2003 13:25 | ||
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| What were their stacks at the start of the hand? | ||
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