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Server Time: 12/1/2008 11:21:03 PM PACIFIC |
 KK vs AA, PairTheBoard, 11. Aug 2003 22:45 | ||
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| How do you play KK against AA? How far do you go with raises before you decide you may be in this worst case scenario? I'm afraid I may go too far mayself. I was on both ends of this situation recently, amazingly enough on consecutive hands. In both cases the board was similar as well coming something like 10 high. With the AA we capped prefolp and flop, then he just called me on the turn and river. With the KK we capped preflop, he smooth called the flop, raised the turn and I - gulp - reraised, he capped. I check called the river. It appears I was outplayed as I lost 2 BB on the exchange. When do you guys slow down with KK? | ||
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| Re: KK vs AA, DJpoker, 12. Aug 2003 00:39 | ||
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| Hey Pair the Board, I would cap preflop without question. After the flop, I would have to slow down if he raised because you have not improved and although you didn't mention what type of player this was, you have to respect the fact he may have you beat with pocket aces or trips. Just MHO. I had AA yesterday and was forced to back down after K-Q-6 popped up. He bet and I raised, he 3 bet. The player was a bit loose but after he 3 bet the flop I had to respect him. As it turned out I called the turn and he checked the river, so I bet and won with AA to AK suited. Good luck those are tough hands. DJpoker | ||
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| Re: KK vs AA, Schuster, 12. Aug 2003 00:42 | ||
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| It depends. If someone else gets the chance to cap it before the flop, then you have a much better idea of where they stand. Most players will not make it four bets without AA, KK, or AKs. If you hold KK, there is only one combo left to make KK and 2 combos for AKs, but there are still 6 combos to make AA. If you know someone will only cap with these hands, they are 2 to 1 to have AA. If the board comes something like queen or jack high, you also have to be wary of a set, as there are some players who will 3 bet with JJ, and most will 3 bet with QQ. If you are the one who made the 4th bet and the flop is rags, I will generally take it to 4 bets on the flop if I have position. This helps let you know if he holds a lesser overpair, maybe jacks or queens, or if he does have the aces. If he still leads into me on the turn, that's where I hit the brakes, maybe even let it go if I know the player well. If he checks, I'd be more inclined to think he has queens or jacks, and he's drawing to 2 outs. In general, I don't concentrate too much on someone having AA when I have KK though. It happens so infrequently, and unless an ace hits, you're going to lose money on the hand anyway (even more if a king hits too!). You would do better to try to recognize general indications that you are beaten, and then apply those to the AA vs KK situation. Good luck! Lee | ||
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| Re: KK vs AA, 4 POKER, 12. Aug 2003 03:39 | ||
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| Hey, Sometimes players will just call raises pre-flop with K-K if there was already substantial action in front of them and they were in the blinds because they want to see the flop first, and then they might chose to play it more aggresively by check-raising and things like that. They use that play for deceptive reasons as well. If you're in one of the blinds and there has already been 3 raises to you, some players will chose not to cap off the betting in this position, as they're poor position might be more affective now to check-raise rather than capping it off and leading out on the flop. But if I'm in the position to raise and even re-raise with K-K, I will be just as aggresive with it as I would with A-A, but I would defintely proceed with caution on the flop and would have no problem laying it down when an Ace appears and there's substantial action and/or multiple opponents. As far as going heads up with the two hands........If you hold K-K and your opponent holds A-A, and neither one of you hits their pair on the flop, well then I guess you're probably going to lose alot of bets here, unless you *really* know this player extremely well. But even with 2 Kings looking at a clean board......you're just gonna lose more than you normally would, and that happens. But if you really feel that your K-K is in danger, then slow it down a bit because if you're heads up with this hand and your opponent gets very aggresive, he also could have flopped a set (not A-A)......so play your hand the best way you know how, if you feel that K-K is the best hand than play it as such, and if your opponent flips over A-A.........so be it. Next hand! It doesn't happen often enough to worry about it really. Just make the best decisions with all the information that has been given to you and let the chips fall where they may. Knwoing how to fold these hands, and *when* they should be folded after the flop.......will also minimize your losses alot. Be aggresive with these starters, just know when they need improvement, or when they need to be mucked. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: KK vs AA, flintsword, 12. Aug 2003 07:39 | ||
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| Observe your opponents. In a tournament recently I "VERY RELUCTANTLY" folded my KK one quarter of way into a squirrelly multi-table against a player that was so tight, no air left his lips so far in the game. I raise 4BB with KK and tight-city reraises. Aside from the general shock of this player playing (let alone raising), it was as clear a signal you can get that he has AA. I did not feel this player was the king of player to reraise simply to grab the raise chips and his previous behaviour did not support the idea. What I am getting at is that this is a situation where the "quality" of your player observation gets a real workout. Instead of playing the hands you have no business playing (guilty your honour ...), observe play and try to characterize your opponents by type, by behaviour, and by card-playing habits. The better the picture, the better chance your call on their raise is going to be more accurate. By the Way, ... Mr. Tight-as-the-seams-of-the-space-shuttle DID have AA and took out another player. flintsword | ||
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| Re: KK vs AA, PairTheBoard, 12. Aug 2003 13:39 | ||
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| Thanks guys. Good food for thought. On this topic I can't resist telling the story of the first time I had this happen to me years ago in a 10-20 game at the Mirage. The Great David Sklansky was sitting in the game, although not in this hand. Heads up there was no cap to raises and I'm afraid I must have gone to something like 7 or 8 reraises with my KK. When the awful realization finally dawned on me that I might not have the best hand and just called I remember David saying something like - "well it's pretty obvious what they have<<pointing at me>> Kings <<pointing at my opponent>> Aces". Ouch | ||
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