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Server Time: 12/1/2008 9:57:40 PM PACIFIC |
 Unhappy with Holdem Hand, RamDannyboy, 11. Aug 2003 16:38 | ||
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| I'm not altogether happy with the way I played this hand. The table was online, low limit, loose and passive. What do you think? On the button with Ac Qd. 4 limp to me and I raise. SB and BB call as does the limpers. 7 handed. Flop: 8s Ks Jh SB bets out. All call except one. 6 handed. Turn: 3c SB bets out again. 2 callers plus me. 4 handed. River: As Gets checked around. Thanks in advance for your feedback. | ||
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| Re: Unhappy with Holdem Hand, BigDukeSix, 11. Aug 2003 16:44 | ||
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| The thing about loose passive players, is that they will be playing a lot of drawing hands. With A Q and not getting any piece of that flop, I would be looking to fold asap. Even if I had A Q on flop, in the game you describe, I would proceed with caution. but then again, that may be me trying to out loose passive them | ||
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| Re: Unhappy with Holdem Hand, grant pittman, 11. Aug 2003 17:58 | ||
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| ramdannyboy you mentioned you didnt like how you played this hand but you haven't said why.You were on the button with AQ offsuit and chose to raise 4 limpers with the blinds yet to act. I have mixed feelings about this play and I don't think it's a bad play but you may consider just calling for these reasons. The first is that the hand will likely be played 6-7 handed regardless of your decision to raise or not but when you raise you build a bigger pot creating incentive for your opponents to chase. In a lot of instances you don't mind your opponents chasing you since they are behind badly and are taking the worst of the bet but this hand plays much better against a small field when a pair of aces or queens has a reasonable chance of holding up. Raising here often gives your opponents the inspiration(ie: big pot) to chase you and they are often correct in doing so. The second reason for not raising is that it wont create early fear in the minds of your opponents (especially those ones that are playing weak ace hands). If your opponents dont fear you have a strong hand they will likely bet into you on the flop if they hit their weak ace or queen allowing you to raise and protect your hand. Just something to think about . Now with 6 opponents you flop a gutshot straight draw but the board contains 2 flush cards and the betting is checked to you. You decided to bet here. Im not a huge fan of this play by you. You have nothing and are behind and could be way behind if someone has flopped a set or 2 pair which is very possible given the flop. True there are 14 small bets in the pot when you decide to bet but you are almost certainly going to need a 10 to win this pot and if there is a spade draw out there you must catch an offsuit 10 giving you only 3 cards to win.It's almost 15-1 against you hitting an offsuit 10 on the turn so it looks like it is even money to bet but DONT get trapped here. If just one of your opponents check raises your odds will be adjusted so that you will now be taking the worst of the bet and if it gets reraised you will be forced out of the hand. This becomes a huge error on your part if you take yourself out of a pot that you have a chance of winning by making a bad bet. Next time check that dog of a hand on that flop and take the free card. You will feel a lot wiser when that offsuit 10 rolls off and your opponents lead into you !!!! GRANT PITTMAN | ||
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| minor criticism, grant, Easy E, 12. Aug 2003 09:48 | ||
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| since Roy's promoting you, I might as well get on YOUR bad side as well! Can you add some paragraph breaks or spacing or something? It's really hard to read through your posts (at least for my old butt, anyway). thanks | ||
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| Re: Unhappy with Holdem Hand, grant pittman, 11. Aug 2003 18:38 | ||
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| sorry ramdannyboy....i just reviewed the betting with your hand and I misread the hand so i guess I'm a little off.Well,let's pretend you did what I thought ok?????????????LOL sorry | ||
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| Re: Unhappy with Holdem Hand, Guru, 11. Aug 2003 21:08 | ||
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| Danny, The first thing I have to say is that I wouldn't have raised the hand pre-flop. You could argue both ways, but this is a drawing hand to me and with so many limpers ahaed of you, IMO there was enough money in the pot and no reason to raise with it. Once you hit the nut straight draw, there was absolutley no reason not to call the hand on the flop and the river. You clearly had pot odds to do so and would have had the nuts if the ten had dropped for you. Up to this point, I think you played the hand just fine. Again, I wouldn't have raised, but I don't think it was a horrible move. I'm guessing that you were unhappy with the way you played because of the outcome. When I first read the post, I assumed that you were unhappy because you got the aces, but someone caught the straight with Q-10 or the flush. However, I looked again and noticed that you said the players checked around. To me that says one of two things. 1) Someone tried to set a trap with straight or flush on the river and noone bit... or 2)You won the hand with Aces and were upset that you didn't get more out of the pot. With just a pair of aces against a board that coordinated and that many initial players in the pot, there is no way you're going to get me to bet on the river. It's walking into a trap. If you were unhappy that you called two bets and lost, I think you had the odds to call and made the right move. Bottom line, I think you played the hand well. Guru | ||
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| Re: Unhappy with Holdem Hand, Schuster, 12. Aug 2003 01:07 | ||
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| > On the button with Ac Qd. 4 limp to me and I raise. SB and BB call as does the > limpers. 7 handed. You can argue it both ways, but I'd just call and see what the flop brings. The pot will be multiway if you raise or not, and your hand does not play well against a lot of limpers. If your AQ was suited, a raise is the clear play. > Flop: 8s Ks Jh > > SB bets out. All call except one. 6 handed. You have a small blind betting into a big field, and that big field all calling. If a spade comes off, you're probably dead. If an ace comes off, you can't feel good about your hand anyway. Any 9, 10, or queen is also bad news. You are getting a huge price on your call though, about 19 to 1, so you can probably slide a card off here. > Turn: 3c You're getting about 13 to 1, and you're 15 to 1 to hit one of your clean outs. If you were sure you could collect 2 extra bets if an offsuit ten came, then maybe call here. I think I'd have to muck though. The board is too coordinated, and if you hit the 10s, you might be forced to make a crying call. Same if an ace falls. It's a troublesome situation. > SB bets out again. 2 callers plus me. 4 handed. > > River: As > > Gets checked around. I'd be very happy no one bet here, and would be glad to show down my aces for free. A bet is not at all warranted here, and probably not even a call if a previously quiet player suddenly comes out into the action. Lee | ||
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| Re: Unhappy with Holdem Hand, DJpoker, 12. Aug 2003 01:09 | ||
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| > On the button with Ac Qd. 4 limp to me and I raise. SB and BB call as does the limpers. 7 handed. No reason to raise here. You have 6 callers locked and most likely 7 because SB will call with anything decent due to odds. It's also easier to get away from if you don't have much invested. Also, you can find out how strong SB and BB are. Maybe they are happy you raised because they get an extra bet in the pot without giving anything away. They are then set to check raise if they catch. I would only value raise AA and KK in this spot. You are giving away too much info. Yes, everyone will probably check to you now, but that tells you nothing and makes you vulnerable to check-raise. You already have position. > > Flop: 8s Ks Jh > SB bets out. All call except one. 6 handed. SB Bets out. Probably holding K-?, but could have pocket 8's or even 10-9 with 8 outs to straight, even nut flush draw. Everyone and their mother calls. You are clueless (I don't mean that personally :) about the hand. More than likely you are looking at 4-5 drawing hands. > > Turn: 3c > SB bets out again. 2 callers plus me. 4 handed. SB could have absolutely anything. Two pair would now be my guess, but I would have no idea what 2 pair. He obviously isn't afraid because of no raise on flop. I would put both callers on either flush or straight draws. > > River: As > Gets checked around. > You can almost not bet. Q-10, flush, AK, pocket 3's, any two pair beat you. I would be scared of all 3 people and assume 1 of them was trapping you into check-raise. Just hope your Ac holds up. Let us know how it turned out. I'd also like anyone to let me know if I'm off on this. Thanks and good luck. DJpoker | ||
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| Re: Unhappy with Holdem Hand, Easy E, 12. Aug 2003 09:56 | ||
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| I must be too aggressive here. I didn't see a big problem with raising pre-flop, unless the table is known to slowplay big hands. Granted, you're making pot odds for the draws... Having raised preflop, am I just crazy to suggest raising POST-flop when the SB bets? I'm thinking: 1) deception with the draw 2) potential free card OR rebluff on the turn (though, with the 2-flush out there, probably not a good idea on the latter) 3) help thin out hands so that when that Ace came, my hand has a better shot at holding up 4) clarify the strength of the hands against me (again, raising for information may be stupid here) Maybe a better play would be to call preflop, raise post-flop and then decide what to do on the turn? I'm not sure what to do if I raised post-flop, when the 3 clubs hits the turn. Given the checked-around river, I might be able to read that they were passive and a bet might have cleared out the hands, because they were evidently weak? Or I'd run into a check-raise.... I await any smack-downs, as well as the results.... | ||
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| Re: Result: Unhappy with Holdem Hand, RamDannyboy, 12. Aug 2003 23:11 | ||
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| Thanks for taking time to respond. The feedback is great and helped to clarify my thinking. I take it with AA pair. The other holdings were Kh 5h (flopped pair KK, 5 kicker) 8h 6h (flopped pair 88) Kd Td (flopped pair KK, T kicker) | ||
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