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Server Time: 2/13/2012 9:23:28 PM PACIFIC |
 PP Tourney Results, mkpoker, 9. Aug 2003 01:34 | ||
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| First, thanks to everyone for all the good advice. Just placed 17 of 750 at a Party Poker NL Super Satellite for the cruise and easily picked up an entry into the semis. (1-50 all won free entries, so everyone pretty much stopped playing seriously once we broke to 5 tables). Needless to say, I got some luck (picking up KK vs. QQ to double up was a personal favorite) but I can't think of a single major error I made, to which I owe thanks to all the posters here. But I'm not posting for vanity...I do have a question. Once we got to 75 people left (top 50 win, remember), the brakes slammed on. Everyone started taking their fully alloted time, so each hand took 6-7 minutes (assuming there wasn't a flop). Is this common in on-line tourneys? I understand why the small stacks used this tactic, but it was exasperating.... Why don't online tourneys use hand-for-hand requirements between tables. That would help. | ||
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| Re: PP Tourney Results, 4 POKER, 9. Aug 2003 03:08 | ||
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| Well I just want to say, "congratulations to you mk"! Good luck in the semi's. 4 POKER | ||
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| Ethical play ?, chasepoker, 9. Aug 2003 04:30 | ||
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| This happens all the time especially on Party poker ( Poker stars seems to make you play quicker ). I play a lot of these mutli-table tourny's on line and it always happens on the bubble. All the short stacks slow right down and yes you can play about 10 hands an hour at this stage. It is really annoying and other than report people who are doing it blatantly ( i once played at a table where some guy was admitting he was doing it and was apologising to the table for doing it ! ) there is not a lot you can do. Whilst needing to get he balance right between people with bad connections and those who bend the rules it is something that could be improved. The problem that this causes is that it changes the shape of the tournament in so far as the blinds go up to rapid in relation to the number of people ( the average number of chips per person is sometimes as high as double the big blind with 70 people left ! ) My question to you all is : " Is slowing down in this situation a clever use of getting every advantage you can or a blatant act of cheating ? " I go for the latter, but i am sure some people will disagree. Cheers, Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: Ethical play ?, LJH, 9. Aug 2003 04:57 | ||
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| CHASEPOKER, IT IS UNETHICAL, AND ALL PLAYERS IN THE GAME SHOLD TELL THAAT PLAYER HE IS EFFECT CHEATING. THEN HE SHOULDE BE REPORTED TO THE TOURNAMAENT MGT OR IN THIS CASE THE ONLINE MGT.LJH | ||
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| Re: Ethical play ?, 4 POKER, 9. Aug 2003 05:09 | ||
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| Hey Chase, Well there's obviously no rule stating that you can't indeed take as much time as you'd like. Even though it may get annoying at times, when you play in tournaments, that kinda thing occurs. It's definitely not cheating, nor do I think it's unethical. It's acceptable in tournament play....otherwise there would be a time limit on the game. That would drive me nuts though, I gotta admit! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Ethical play ?, Swagman, 9. Aug 2003 05:20 | ||
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| As alwayz 4poker is correct. Most sites give u a time limit approximately 15 sec to act. My advice, use every edge you can find to win. On the same topic, If I have a strong hunch that I am being bluffed into, but don't have the inclination to prove it, I'll give my opponent the full 15 seconds of anxiety , before I muck it. Im sure I use the timer in other ways just can't think of em now. | ||
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| Re: Ethical play ? ( i am on my moral high horse ), chasepoker, 9. Aug 2003 06:33 | ||
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| I am all for exploiting every edge i can when i play the game, but i am not talking about slowing the game down a little i am talking about people taking the full 45 seconds when online( aprox ) to make every decision they make. I dont do it and i think it is against the " unwritten "rules of the game to do so, sure i may lose a few $'s by not playing that way but i feel that if i do win it is by my own skills not by over-stretching the rules to the limits. By the way i am one of the most competitive people you have ever met and will do almost anything to win at anything i participate in. What i believe though, however, is that there is a certain line you have to draw and for me it is there ! Please note this is not saying that it is the right thing to do its just i am too pig headed some times, probably a bad reflection on me !!!! Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: Ethical play ? ( i am on my moral high horse ), 4 POKER, 9. Aug 2003 06:55 | ||
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| Chase, It *is* possible that these players that are taking the full amount of time are indeed just thinking over their own play here. Not everyone is a good player, and some people *do* require more time to think....it could be. And some players may do this just to get under your skin if they know there's a possibility of it. Just relax Chase 'cause you're a good tournament player.....I've watched you play! But I will still disagree with you on this one because if you watch a tournament on TV, the best players in the world take forever to make a decision. It's just part of the theatrics alot of the times....but that's poker. And if I thought that taking your time in a tournament hand was any way unethical, I would say so as well...but I just don't see it that way here. Dave | ||
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| Yes obe wan 4 POKER, chasepoker, 9. Aug 2003 09:24 | ||
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| Yeah i guess you are right but when someone with very few chips is typing into the chat box " sorry for taking the full time to act but i dont want to get busted " it seems to be pushing the boundaries a little ! But yes you are right it is down to tournament organisers to add a rule if they want people to play quickly. 4POKER is the obe wan kenobi of UPF !!! Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: Yes obe wan 4 POKER, BUSSY, 9. Aug 2003 12:18 | ||
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| I hope what you said about 4POKER is good.. | ||
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| Re: Ethical play ? ( i am on my moral high horse ), mkpoker, 9. Aug 2003 13:18 | ||
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| In this case, there is no doubt players were delaying intentionally--none at all. However, I think their play was clearly ethical for two reasons: 1. They were using the rules. It's Party's fault they don't have stricter time limits or rules requiring all tables to move hand-for-hand. Implementing such rules would make games faster, fairer, and more fun. But it's not the players' fault that Party doesn't have its act together. 2. All the tables were doing it. Normally, this isn't a compelling moral or legal argument, but in this case it's important. In the situation I described, there were probably 20 people desperate to hold on for the last 10 entries. These were players down to the felt, where one more round of blinds could break them. If one table was playing at a normal pace, their short stacks would play 8-9 times more hands than than would the short stacks at other tables. That would have placed them at a terribly unfair disadvantage. I didn't play along with the delay, but I was the chip leader, so it really didn't affect me. That said, I can't fault the short stacks at my table for hoping each hand lasted an hour. --matt P.S. I realized I said earlier that I won a pass to the semis. That was a late-night no-sleep typo. The tournament was for entries to another satellite, where winners get the cruise package. So I'm shooting for the big boat on Tuesday. Hopes are high, expectations are low. Either way, it's still an improvement from my humiliating dead last finish in the last UPF NL tourney! | ||
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| Re: Ethical play ? ( i am on my moral high horse ), palman, 9. Aug 2003 14:30 | ||
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| When someone takes the full amount of time to decide whether they are going to play the hand preflop or not, and do this EVERY hand, they arent mulling over the call. And it doesnt just happen late in the tournament. When there are 800 people left and the whole table complains its a pain. (and its not his connection because once he gets in the money or in a situation where he doesnt need to stall he magically stops) | ||
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| Re: Ethical play ? ( i am on my moral high horse ), palman, 9. Aug 2003 14:21 | ||
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| I think it is cheating when you take the time not to make a decision but to waste time. I've played with people who did it when it was still 800+ players. Playing with these people makes it so you only get a few hands per blind limit (since it is timed) so if you're only getting 5 hands in every time the blinds double its unfair to everyone else playing, and makes the tournament come down to blind luck, much like a sit n go. | ||
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| Re: Ethical play ? ( i am on my moral high horse ), flintsword, 9. Aug 2003 16:52 | ||
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| There is a practical reason for taking time when you are short stacked and have a so-so holding: You may need the time - as a person - to screw up your courage to play the hand. Consider the situation. You are first line for Bubbleboy (or Bubblegirl ...) 2003, you hold JT suited in MP and are wondering if this is the best you are going to get. Time is the answer. Quick decision: muck. Think about it: hopefully also muck but sometimes it is the best you are going to get. flintsword | ||
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| Re: PP Tourney Results, flintsword, 9. Aug 2003 07:18 | ||
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| Super result mkpoker, ... Congratulations! Buy suntan lotion and clear your calander for the cruise. Whenever you reach the bubble, all play slows down. A normal reaction by the short stacks hoping that someone on another table gets "nuked off" before he gets blinded off. A funny situation (I have seen it often) at this point is where there is a particularly obnoxious player who is NOT one of the short stacks gets targetted by one of the big stacks. flintsword | ||
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| Re: PP Tourney Results, stdioh, 11. Aug 2003 11:22 | ||
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| It only makes sense for all players. Since it is a satelite, even the big stacks don't want to have to play. They just want to wait until 25 small stacks bust and they'd rather bust the stacks at other tables than the ones at their own. The faster they play, the greater chance of busting somebody at their table, which means that their table is shorthanded and plays even faster, then gets new players with bigger stacks. It is unfortunate that things have to work this way, but that's how they work. When you have 8 tables playing hand for hand would take forever and the blinds would go up too fast - everything would fall apart. You can do it with 2 or 3 tables, but 8 would be too many. You raise one interesting point. This is one particular time when it is correct for a smallish stack to attack bigger stacks. If you're at a place where the brakes are on large, 50 places pay and you're down to 75 and you are in 65th place, you want to play some hands before despreation sets in. Ideally you want to chip up enough that you don't have to panic at the zero hour. Now if you're playing against the tiny stacks, they are desperate and are likely to play you and a giant stack is still willing to gable too, but if you find a player in 30th place, he'll be desperate to just fold every single hand he gets and slip into the money in 50th if he can. These are the guys that you pound on. Steal their blinds with crap and if they call your steal then fire away at the flop like billy B damned. Of course if they come back at you preflop you have to get away from your junk, but in general these guys will be afraid to play - and wouldn't you be? If I knew I could fold all my blinds and make the money, but couldn't afford to play and lose, why wouldn't I just let my blinds be stolen unless I had something amazing...like AA ... in which case I would push all in and be happy either getting called or restealing. Brutally assault the players in 50th-25th place and get there yourself. Then sit on your arse and hope that other bust quickly. | ||
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