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Online Poker, Carson Horton, 6. Aug 2003 23:52
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I can't accept the fact that online poker is offering a random distribution of the cards...Is it me or does anyone else see this?

I have played for thirty years and I have never seen the kind of card combinations that I see at online games. I was watching a game the other day and a five player showdown resulted in three players with flush draws, each held a face card as their high card and the winner drew down quad 4's when the river came up 4 of spades with the 4 of hearts also on board and the winner held pocket fours...? Couldn't believe it...

I know the poker sites claim they produce a random draw but I also know that slot machine designers will tell you that there is no such thing as a truely random sequence.

I would like to know what others think?
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Re: Online Poker, johnph77, 7. Aug 2003 03:28
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Probably not. Given that computer random-number generators actually have a set pattern (although there are many, many variations and starting points, different computers have different patterns, etc.), the total number of differing placement possibilities in a 52-card deck is (52!), or 8.06581751593589E+067, which is far beyond the capability of all but the largest of these. Whether the particular combinations (or number of combinations) are influenced by the online host for the sake of playability is simply a matter of conjecture.
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Re: Online Poker, Jiggah1, 7. Aug 2003 07:07
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I think the key thing to notice here is a "5 player showdown". The games are so much looser online compared to their land game counterparts. I played all week in Vegas at 1-4-8-8 at the monte carlo, tons of hours and didn't see a single 5 player showdown. You're going to see a lot more wacky stuff.

Regards,
O-PG

------------------------------------------
Start winning hundreds at Texas Holdem with Power Holdem+ (available free) at
http://www.online-pokerguide.com
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Re: Online Poker, SmellsLikeVictory, 7. Aug 2003 09:04
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Sorry, a couple of anecdotes does not prove anything.

I have over 70K hands in my PokerStat database for Paradise and it has a nice feature that shows all your hand distributions vs what you should expect.. All in line with what you'd expect, more or less. Data is below. This is for Paradise only, but since these kind of programs exist for most sites and you would be able to detect "juiced" decks via these statisical analysis.

Total hands you were dealt cards: 73889

All suited starters dealt: 17268 (23.37%)
All suited starters expected: 17386 (23.5%)

All connected starters dealt: 11644 (15.76%)
All connected starters expected: 11590 (15.7%)

Suited connector starters dealt: 2881 (3.90%)
Suited connector starters expected: 2898 (3.92%)

Paired starters dealt: 4437 (6.005%)
Paired starters expected: 4346 (5.88%)

AKo dealt: 705 (0.954%)
AKo expected: 669 (0.905%)

AKs dealt: 229 (0.310%)
AKs expected: 223 (0.302%)

Any AK dealt: 934 (1.264%)
Any AK expected: 892 (1.21%)

A's dealt: 319 (0.432%)
K's dealt: 299 (0.405%)
Q's dealt: 352 (0.476%)
J's dealt: 350 (0.474%)
T's dealt: 363 (0.491%)
9's dealt: 352 (0.476%)
8's dealt: 319 (0.432%)
7's dealt: 345 (0.467%)
6's dealt: 336 (0.455%)
5's dealt: 365 (0.494%)
4's dealt: 331 (0.448%)
3's dealt: 350 (0.474%)
2's dealt: 356 (0.482%)
Each pair expected: 334 (0.452%)

otal hands you were dealt cards: 73889
Times a flop dealt when you were dealt cards: 64068 (86.71%)

When user dealt AK, flops at least one A or K: 279 (31.81%)
expected: 284 (32.4%)

USER HAS ANY TWO SUITED CARDS (dealt 15273 times):
Using both user's hole cards, flopped a:
3 flush: 6295 (41.22%) expected: 6352 (41.6%)
4 flush: 1665 (10.90%) expected: 1671 (10.9%)
5 flush: 145 (0.95%) expected: 129 (0.842%)
Three cards on the flop make up a:
3 straight: 477 (3.12%) expected: 487 (3.18%)
2 flush: 8410 (55.06%) expected: 8418 (55.1%)
3 flush: 843 (5.52%) expected: 797 (05.22%)
any pair: 2577 (16.87%) expected: 2586 (16.9%)
Hand user flops:
High card: 7997 (52.4%) expected: 8037 (52.6%)
Pair: 6179 (40.5%) expected: 6172 (40.4%)
Two pair: 648 (4.24%) expected: 617 (4.04%)
3 of a kind: 235 (1.54%) expected: 240 (1.57%)
Straight: 53 (0.35%) expected: 63 (0.412%)
Flush: 143 (0.94%) expected: 128 (0.835%)
Full house: 16 (0.105%) expected: 14 (0.0918%)
Four of a kind: 0 (0.000%) expected: 2 (0.0102%)
Straight flush: 2 (0.013%) expected: 1 (0.00589%)
Royal flush: 0 (0.000%) expected: 0 (0.000654%)

USER HAS ANY PAIR (dealt 4101 times):
Using both user's hole cards, flopped a:
Underpair (to flop): 968 (23.60%) expected: 962 (23.5%)
Overpair (to flop): 958 (23.36%) expected: 962 (23.5%)
Set: 456 (11.12%) expected: 472 (11.51%)
Quads: 6 (0.146%) expected: 10 (0.245%)
Three cards on the flop make up a:
3 straight: 128 (3.12%) expected: 130 (3.18%)
2 flush: 2267 (55.28%) expected: 2257 (55.0%)
3 flush: 198 (4.83%) expected: 212 (5.16%)
any pair: 673 (16.41%) expected: 703 (17.1%)
Hand user flops:
High card: 0 (0.0%) expected: 0 (0.00%)
Pair: 2990 (72.9%) expected: 2946 (71.8%)
Two pair: 642 (15.65%) expected: 663 (16.2%)
3 of a kind: 431 (10.51%) expected: 442 (10.8%)
Straight: 0 (0.00%) expected: 0 (0.00%)
Flush: 0 (0.00%) expected: 0 (0.00%)
Full house: 32 (0.780%) expected: 40 (0.980%)
Four of a kind: 6 (0.146%) expected: 10 (0.245%)
Straight flush: 0 (0.000%) expected: 0 (0.00%)
Royal flush: 0 (0.000%) expected: 0 (0.00%)

USER HAS OFFSUIT CONNECTORS FROM 54o to JTo (dealt 4018 times):
Using both user's hole cards, flopped a:
Open ended: 310 (7.72%) expected: 344 (8.55%)
Double belly: 29 (0.72%) expected: 21 (0.531%)
Straight: 56 (1.39%) expected: 51 (1.26%)
Three cards on the flop make up a:
3 straight: 117 (2.91%) expected: 127 (3.15%)
2 flush: 2256 (56.15%) expected: 2212 (55.0%)
3 flush: 194 (4.83%) expected: 207 (5.16%)
any pair: 676 (16.82%) expected: 680 (16.9%)
Hand user flops:
High card: 2117 (52.7%) expected: 2115 (52.6%)
Pair: 1614 (40.2%) expected: 1624 (40.4%)
Two pair: 164 (4.08%) expected: 162 (4.04%)
3 of a kind: 59 (1.47%) expected: 63 (1.57%)
Straight: 59 (1.47%) expected: 50 (1.23%)
Flush: 0 (0.00%) expected: 0 (0.00%)
Full house: 5 (0.124%) expected: 4 (0.0918%)
Four of a kind: 0 (0.000%) expected: 0 (0.0102%)
Straight flush: 0 (0.000%) expected: 0 (0.00%)
Royal flush: 0 (0.000%) expected: 0 (0.00%)

ALL FLOPS SEEN BY THE USER:
Three cards on the flop make up a:
3 straight: 2040 (3.18%) expected: 2041 (3.19%)
2 flush: 35359 (55.19%) expected: 35275 (55.1%)
3 flush: 3339 (5.21%) expected: 3316 (5.18%)
any pair: 10754 (16.79%) expected: 10854 (16.9%)
Hand user flops:
High card: 31997 (49.9%) expected: 32109 (50.1%)
Pair: 27193 (42.4%) expected: 27073 (42.3%)
Two pair: 3065 (4.78%) expected: 3046 (4.75%)
3 of a kind: 1331 (2.08%) expected: 1354 (2.11%)
Straight: 240 (0.37%) expected: 251 (0.392%)
Flush: 143 (0.22%) expected: 126 (0.197%)
Full house: 85 (0.133%) expected: 92 (0.144%)
Four of a kind: 12 (0.019%) expected: 15 (0.0240%)
Straight flush: 2 (0.003%) expected: 1 (0.00139%)
Royal flush: 0 (0.000%) expected: 0 (0.000154%)

Total hands you were dealt cards: 73889

Total final boards seen when you were dealt cards: 41880

USER HAS ANY TWO SUITED CARDS (dealt 10221 times):
Four flushes flopped: 1220 (11.94%)
expected: 1119 (10.9%)
When flop four flush, got flush: 415 (34.02%)
expected: 427 (35.0%)
Hand user has at river:
High card: 1778 (17.4%) expected: 1781 (17.4%)
Pair: 4263 (41.7%) expected: 4358 (42.6%)
Two pair: 2287 (22.38%) expected: 2259 (22.1%)
3 of a kind: 442 (4.32%) expected: 443 (4.33%)
Straight: 495 (4.84%) expected: 466 (4.56%)
Flush: 719 (7.03%) expected: 665 (6.51%)
Full house: 213 (2.084%) expected: 227 (2.22%)
Four of a kind: 10 (0.098%) expected: 13 (0.126%)
Straight flush: 13 (0.127%) expected: 7 (0.0663%)
Royal flush: 1 (0.010%) expected: 1 (0.00781%)

USER HAS ANY PAIR (dealt 2864 times):
A set flopped: 354 (12.36%)
expected: 323 (11.3%)
When flop set, got boat or quads: 111 (31.36%)
expected: 118 (33.4%)
Hand user has at river:
High card: 0 (0.0%) expected: 0 (0.00%)
Pair: 1056 (36.9%) expected: 1016 (35.5%)
Two pair: 1120 (39.11%) expected: 1132 (39.5%)
3 of a kind: 354 (12.36%) expected: 336 (11.7%)
Straight: 43 (1.50%) expected: 54 (1.90%)
Flush: 56 (1.96%) expected: 56 (1.95%)
Full house: 212 (7.402%) expected: 245 (8.54%)
Four of a kind: 23 (0.803%) expected: 24 (0.842%)
Straight flush: 0 (0.000%) expected: 0 (0.0160%)
Royal flush: 0 (0.000%) expected: 0 (0.00182%)

USER HAS OFFSUIT CONNECTORS FROM 54o to JTo (dealt 2576 times):
Flopped open ended: 231 (8.97%)
expected: 220 (8.55%)
When open ended, got straight: 66 (28.57%)
expected: 71 (30.7%)
Hand user has at river:
High card: 449 (17.4%) expected: 443 (17.2%)
Pair: 1103 (42.8%) expected: 1101 (42.7%)
Two pair: 544 (21.12%) expected: 574 (22.3%)
3 of a kind: 108 (4.19%) expected: 112 (4.35%)
Straight: 254 (9.86%) expected: 235 (9.12%)
Flush: 44 (1.71%) expected: 50 (1.95%)
Full house: 71 (2.756%) expected: 57 (2.22%)
Four of a kind: 3 (0.116%) expected: 3 (0.126%)
Straight flush: 0 (0.000%) expected: 1 (0.0209%)
Royal flush: 0 (0.000%) expected: 0 (0.00110%)

ALL RIVERS SEEN BY THE USER:
Hand user has at river:
High card: 7443 (17.8%) expected: 7292 (17.4%)
Pair: 18243 (43.6%) expected: 18353 (43.8%)
Two pair: 9754 (23.29%) expected: 9840 (23.5%)
3 of a kind: 2014 (4.81%) expected: 2023 (4.83%)
Straight: 2004 (4.79%) expected: 1935 (4.62%)
Flush: 1323 (3.16%) expected: 1267 (3.03%)
Full house: 1007 (2.404%) expected: 1087 (2.60%)
Four of a kind: 73 (0.174%) expected: 70 (0.168%)
Straight flush: 18 (0.043%) expected: 12 (0.0279%)
Royal flush: 1 (0.002%) expected: 1 (0.00323%)

Four to a flush on board 1835 (4.382%)
expected: 1797 (4.29%)
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Re: Online Poker, Eaglesfan1, 7. Aug 2003 17:04
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You think thats crazy, At a home game of mine one time, 2 people had full houses and 2 people hit flushes. The betting was insane needless to say. I flopped the full house another guy got his on the river and it beat mine. I lost it all on that crap and I was livin... It went 299810. Winner had 910 I had 22. Haven't seen anything online that even compares to that.
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