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Server Time: 12/1/2008 8:38:53 PM PACIFIC |
 KQ vs 33's, noiseboy, 6. Aug 2003 10:10 | ||
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| Okay, let's get this straight! 33's are the favorite heads-up against KQ. Moneymaker put his opponent on two high cards because Boyd was on a short stack and likely getting a bit desperate to get some chips. In addition, Moneymaker had more chips than Boyd, so it wasn't an all-or-nothing situation for him. Anyway, it was a really tough call for him, but he went with his read and picked off a player when he was favored to win. | ||
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| Re: KQ vs 33's, tpir90036, 6. Aug 2003 10:34 | ||
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| 100% agreed. i just thought it was funny watching these two guys try to read one another. did they somehow become howard lederer-esque reading masters in just 4 days of big time poker? i doubt it. what information did dutch boyd think he could possibly get out of trying to stare a hole through moneymaker's sunglasses like that? i don't think any of them had any sort of read on the other one at all. it was just coin-flip city.....i wasn't there though and i am not either one of them so i could be wrong though. | ||
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| Re: KQ vs 33's, noiseboy, 6. Aug 2003 11:36 | ||
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| After the fact, Boyd has posted that he had Moneymaker on a small pair, and thought that he would lay it down to the big bet. I think the call with the 33's was really good, mainly because Boyd was looking super nervous, so I think Moneymaker really did think to himself "if this guy's got a decent pair, why the heck is he so edgy." It's impossible to say if either of them really had a read, like when PH goes "I thought you had JJ's" I mean c'mon, everybody can go, oh I knew you had that. | ||
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| Re: KQ vs 33's, Jav, 6. Aug 2003 10:39 | ||
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| That's a tough read though. For someone on a small stack, they'll generally play two high cards, any pocket pair, or any suited Ace the same. At least if they are in danger of blinding out soon. The only one that it seems like Moneymaker had beat was the two high cards. Great read if that's what it was. | ||
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| Re: KQ vs 33's, Big_Slick, 6. Aug 2003 10:50 | ||
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| I think we we're all just shocked that he had the balls the call the all-in bet. I don't think I could have done it. | ||
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| Re: KQ vs 33's, noiseboy, 6. Aug 2003 11:38 | ||
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| yep, that's some serious cahones. Especially, to trust his read even after he made a huge mistake reading Brenes earlier in the tourney when he ended up having a smaller pair and running right into the slow play. Its hard to do that. | ||
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| Re: KQ vs 33's, fourstar2000, 6. Aug 2003 11:02 | ||
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| I agree that it was a tremendous call by Moneymaker, but Boyd actually wasn't on a short stack. In fact, he had more chips than Moneymaker, forcing him to go all-in with his pair of 3s (which made the call even more remarkable to me). I'll have to watch the episode again, but I think Moneymaker says "no high cards" before Boyd even flips his cards over, proving that he read his opponent correctly. It was only after this hand that Boyd was in a desperate situation with a short stack. | ||
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| Re: KQ vs 33's, noiseboy, 6. Aug 2003 11:40 | ||
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| Oops, I think you're right about that. I'll have to watch again. The way ESPN jumps around, it's hard to keep up with who has what stack size. | ||
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| Re: KQ vs 33's, shorn, 6. Aug 2003 12:02 | ||
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| So, how could boyd have chips left over after the hand if moneymaker had more than him? Boyd had 67k left after the hand, so he had MM covered. That wasn't the hand on which he got busted. So, MM put all of his chips on the line (a higher than average stack mind you) on a coin flip hand when they were just starting to get close to the big money. It was a stupid play and no one will convince me otherwise. | ||
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| Re: KQ vs 33's, Schuster, 6. Aug 2003 12:09 | ||
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| But it wasn't a coinflip. Boyd went all in after the flop came rags, Moneymaker was 3 to 1 to hold up. The call is still gutwrenching, but 3 to 1 for all your chips... pretty good odds. Lee | ||
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| Re: KQ vs 33's, shorn, 6. Aug 2003 12:17 | ||
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| That close to the money, it wasn't worth it. You are also assuming that MM was correct in his read. Like I pointed out in another e-mail, dutch could have had a pocket pair higher than MM's or A9s or A5s. So, while I agree that the odds were 3 to 1, MM didn't know that when he put all of his chips at risk...he just thought he was right and was correct. | ||
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| Re: KQ vs 33's, noiseboy, 6. Aug 2003 14:10 | ||
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| Oops, you are right about the chip count. | ||
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