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Server Time: 12/1/2008 7:45:46 PM PACIFIC |
 BACK IN THE SADDLE AGAIN! WSOP on ESPN comments, Easy E, 5. Aug 2003 20:57 | ||
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| Notes from WSOP episodes #5 and a little of #4 ** WARNING! SPOILERS CONTAINED HEREIN! ** Just to mention a couple of things about #4: I'm assuming Dutch Boyd was jerking around with the ESPN people with his "chip tricks = poker success" cameo.... I know that I always fold immediately when someone does fancy things with chips at the table.... jeez! I could almost HEAR the gnashing of online players' teeth during all of his spots... Also, the big Moneymaker/Huberto hand. We never see the preflop action, so maybe someone can comment on this hand. But, on the flop, King-baby-baby (can't remember if it was rainbow or two-tone), does it make sense to come over the top and put Brenes all-in? Or is it, if you're going to play the hand, you have to move with it? Or it depends on your read of Humberto (in this case, a badly misread AA)? Okay, on to show #5: I missed the very beginning, got back in time to see Phil H get busted out (I was inconsolable!). At least he kept quiet.... whoops, spoke too soon! Well, guess I can't bust him up too much on the comment. Was Howard Lederer REALLY as bothered by that beat as ESPN made him look? Howard really looked as if he was tilting big-time. Did Dutch Boyd misplay the had when he had trips, with two clubs showing, and only bet 80K... THEN goes all-in on the river 5-off? Who's going to call him THEN, unless he's beaten? The hand when Scotty N bluffed out Sam F- the play was curious to me. Scotty has AJ, Sam has a queen-something. Scotty just calls 30K on the 6s59Qs turn, then raises Sam on the blank on the river. What does Sam put Scotty on here, that he folds the top-top hand here? Also, IS he allowed to show the crowd his hand, but still block Sam and the other players from seeing it? Is that a Vegas rule or a general poker tournament rule? Sam's "going to war" comment- you're not TOO much on tilt, are you SF? Brian Watkins should have known that you have to be a Moneymaker to have the karma to overcome Aces with his 88. Chris Moneymaker made some astonishing calls on camera. His 33 against Dutch Boyd's KQ all-in reraise, with the 925rainbow flop, shocked me. I don't care if you DO read Dutch for overcards- can you go all-in with threes in this spot in the tournament? If that's the kind of heart that it takes, I may not be cut out for tournament poker. Can someone comment on whether this was a good or bad move here? Or was it just the ghosts of Online Poker Veangence rising to claim their due? Interesting to see Phil Ivey lose his cool with his 77 when he flopped 3T7 against Deeb's KK and the JT, then got run over on the turn by the King. Phil seemed pretty pissed to me when responding to Deeb's request for his money- but he cooled off quickly enough with the "must be the shirt!" jab... There were a lot of hard beats on late suckouts- Scotty N's JJ bustout vs AQo when the river Ace came- but why did the announcers call Chris M's win with 33 against Dutch a "tough beat" for Dutch? He was behind the whole way... Yet Dutch escaped the curse later with his set of 5's against the 4-flush... Thorson's play at the end was comment-worthy (I can't think of what else to say here). He has 1.2M, calls a 600K bet with AKo overcards that don't pan out against Q8d... STUPID comment by Norm Chad, I think, when the 2s comes on the turn, giving Thorson a straight draw, and Norm says that the card was "no help to either player" ??? I guess straights are no good at the WSOP... Then, to follow that with KK (was it actually the VERY next hand, or was ESPN working their magic again?) and go all-in on the Ace flop that busts him out- was he steaming here, to go all-in? I think he opened all-in on the flop, correct? I guess I'll have to change Freddie's name to Fred "Bleep!"- pretty funny, actually (though not to him, I'm sure) Was Dutch Boyd's all-in charge with second pair Queens, with an Ace on board, full of "heart" as he claimed? Or was it just stupid? Didn't Sam Farha bust someone else up with an Ace flop earlier at the same table? I was surprised that ESPN showed the chip counts with 10 players and 10 minutes left in the show.... and again at the END of the show. Is it a good teaser to use the final 9 chip counts, since they're just going to have to repeat it for show #6 because few people will remember any number but Chris M's 2.4M?? Another stupid comment, by the other announcer, when they ran through the chip counts for the final 10 players- "millionaire's club"?? PLEASE, those chip stacks aren't worth anywhere close to that at this point! Ac9c- the Rounders hand! Where's the Aces? Where's the funky Russian accent? Sam F takes this up against Chris M's AQoff (someone was right, they WILL have to call this the Moneymaker... like they labeled QT the Varkonyi). Sam calls CM's preflop 50K raise. Flop comes 64A, Sam check-calls CM's 70K. Turn and river, same thing, EVEN when the King falls. Does Sam put Chris on a smaller pair here and is having him chew off chips to what Sam thinks is the better hand? Doesn't Sam have to make a move SOMEWHERE in this hand? Or was Chris M that overly aggressive in general (ignoring the 88 vs. AA hand)? Sam's "I can read them... better than YOU can!" to the dealer was too much- tilting a little there, Sam? WTF? We have commercials EVERY FIVE MINUTES at the end of this hour? We see a player survey and ONE DAMN HAND and get another commercial? The WPT is looking better and better with some of this crap! And while I'm bitching, where did my shuffling deck graphic from the first show go? I miss it! One question on the infamous Phil Ivey set hand. What is Lester doing overcalling with TT after Moneymaker makes it 60K and PI smooth-calls? If Lester is putting CM on big cards and Phil on a pair, why isn't he moving chips with this hand? Shouldn't this be bump or dump here? Of course, we DON'T KNOW WHAT ANYONE'S STACK SIZE IS, SO WE CAN'T MAKE ANY INFERENCES HERE!! (ESPN really has to get on the ball with that...) Phil seemed to handle it in a really classy way. Anyone want to take the under on Phil Hellmuth's decibel level if he'd gotten a bad beat like that? Well, now I'm looking forward to see what they do next week with the final table! By the way, was Chris Moneymaker OVERLY lucky with his all-in saves that we saw, or is that about average for someone who makes it to the final table in the WSOP? Any vets out there who can comment? | ||
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| Re: BACK IN THE SADDLE AGAIN! WSOP on ESPN comments, Schuster, 5. Aug 2003 22:58 | ||
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| Comments are spliced within. > Also, the big Moneymaker/Huberto hand. We never see the preflop action, so > maybe someone can comment on this hand. But, on the flop, King-baby-baby (can't > remember if it was rainbow or two-tone), does it make sense to come over the top > and put Brenes all-in? I guess he really thought Humberto was on nothing. I think if I were going to play the hand and had a big chip stack, I'd do the same thing. Put him to a decision. > Okay, on to show #5: > I missed the very beginning, got back in time to see Phil H get busted out (I > was inconsolable!). At least he kept quiet.... whoops, spoke too soon! Well, > guess I can't bust him up too much on the comment. I really thought he was going to bust into tears when he was over with his parents! His QQ was a tough beat, I'm surprised he didn't go off a little on that one. I guess it happens though. > Did Dutch Boyd misplay the had when he had trips, with two clubs showing, and > only bet 80K... THEN goes all-in on the river 5-off? Who's going to call him > THEN, unless he's beaten? I don't remember the hand exactly, but I think he was putting the cop on top pair. The river paired the top card, and he went all in with his full house hoping to get a call from the trips. At least, that's how I read his thought process. > Chris Moneymaker made some astonishing calls on camera. His 33 against Dutch > Boyd's KQ all-in reraise, with the 925rainbow flop, shocked me. I don't care > if you DO read Dutch for overcards- can you go all-in with threes in this spot > in the tournament? If that's the kind of heart that it takes, I may not be cut > out for tournament poker. > Can someone comment on whether this was a good or bad move here? Or was it > just the ghosts of Online Poker Veangence rising to claim their due? Geez! I was really surprised he made that call for all his chips too. I think Dutch had him on a weak hand went he went all in, Moneymaker seems a bit out of control of his physical appearances. You could see the weakness when he opened. > Interesting to see Phil Ivey lose his cool with his 77 when he flopped 3T7 > against Deeb's KK and the JT, then got run over on the turn by the King. Phil > seemed pretty pissed to me when responding to Deeb's request for his money- but > he cooled off quickly enough with the "must be the shirt!" jab... I was even more surprised that someone is calling a raise with a JTs. This hand is dominated all over the place! I wouldn't feel comfortable flopping top pair with this hand at all. As soon as I saw the flop, I laughed out loud. It couldn't have been more perfect for tv, top pair vs an overpair vs a set. > Thorson's play at the end was comment-worthy (I can't think of what else to > say here). He has 1.2M, calls a 600K bet with AKo overcards that don't pan out > against Q8d... STUPID comment by Norm Chad, I think, when the 2s comes on the > turn, giving Thorson a straight draw, and Norm says that the card was "no help > to either player" ??? I guess straights are no good at the WSOP... I was in shock that Thorson was willing to tango with someone who could really dent his stack with such a weak holding. One minute you're near the chip lead, and the next you're out of the tournament. Bad play. > Then, to follow that with KK (was it actually the VERY next hand, or was > ESPN working their magic again?) and go all-in on the Ace flop that busts him > out- was he steaming here, to go all-in? I think he opened all-in on the flop, > correct? I have no idea! His stack was still reasonable, why not bet the pot and stay alive. He's really only going to get called there by someone holding the ace, and if an Ax hand is good enough to call a raise with, they'll call when they hit the ace. I think it was the very next hand after the AK fiasco. > Ac9c- the Rounders hand! Where's the Aces? Where's the funky Russian > accent? Sam F takes this up against Chris M's AQoff (someone was right, they > WILL have to call this the Moneymaker... like they labeled QT the Varkonyi). > Sam calls CM's preflop 50K raise. Flop comes 64A, Sam check-calls CM's 70K. > Turn and river, same thing, EVEN when the King falls. Does Sam put Chris on a > smaller pair here and is having him chew off chips to what Sam thinks is the > better hand? > Doesn't Sam have to make a move SOMEWHERE in this hand? Or was Chris M > that overly aggressive in general (ignoring the 88 vs. AA hand)? > Sam's "I can read them... better than YOU can!" to the dealer was too much- > tilting a little there, Sam? I was very surprised that moneymaker was willing to bet the river again. If Sam comes over the top of you for all his chips, can you make that call? I would have checked it down and taken my pot. > WTF? We have commercials EVERY FIVE MINUTES at the end of this hour? We see > a player survey and ONE DAMN HAND and get another commercial? The WPT is > looking better and better with some of this crap! > And while I'm bitching, where did my shuffling deck graphic from the first > show go? I miss it! No kidding. I like the WPT layout a lot better. We never know what the blinds are, what the stack sizes are, and for the first few episodes, they wouldn't even give us the amount bet half the time. And the shuffling deck is still there, isn't it? > Well, now I'm looking forward to see what they do next week with the final > table! Hopefully include the blinds, and it would also be nice to see what people are folding. Usually they just show you the cards of people that are involved in the hand, but I wish they'd show us all of them. Lee | ||
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| Re: BACK IN THE SADDLE AGAIN! WSOP on ESPN comments, tpir90036, 5. Aug 2003 23:16 | ||
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| what about the camera mounted on the dealers visor that they showed for like two seconds?!? that was hilarious. next thing they will have a camera inside of someone's chips or in the cards themselves for the ultra-super-inside-sneak peek. | ||
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