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Server Time: 9/4/2008 10:14:01 PM PACIFIC |
 Check-Raising in No Limit, Stuart Resnick, 3. Aug 2003 11:36 | ||
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| On rgp, someone said that in Sklansky's workshop, he spoke about why check-raising is rarely correct in no limit. Why would this be? | ||
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| Re: Check-Raising in No Limit, flintsword, 3. Aug 2003 14:48 | ||
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| I think the key word here is "rarely". NL is not a game that rewards players that allow opponents a free card. If the flop is Qd Th Tc and you have Qh Qs (flopping a boat), you can probably safely check raise realizing that Ts Td kvorks you. Hands like this fall into the rare category but with QQ you are probably raising it anyways preflop. Checkraise with the nuts, ... and that is rare enough. I have always considered NL to be an exercise in making sure that any drawing hands are too expensive for opponents that calculate odds to indulge in. Beware of games with rank amateurs that will (incorrectly) call your raise against the odds. Not because of the short term loss, but the increased fluctuations the game will bring to the table. Anyone here attend the lecture by Sklansky? Is this lecture posted anywhere on the net? flintsword | ||
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| Re: Check-Raising in No Limit, Slate, 4. Aug 2003 07:42 | ||
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| Typically a check raise is to get more into the pot and flush out some weaker player who have already called. In limit the person you checked raised can make it on more to go and you can call him to check out the flop. I no limit if you check raise, that person can come over the top of you and essentially make you fold if the bet it too great for your cards. In limit you would call without to much damage. I do not think this is the answer to your question, but I think since in limit you have the max bet limitation, the check raise can maximize your winnings if you have a great hand, the nut or a good bluff. In no limit I do not see that much of a gain with the check raise and a bigger risk if your check raise goes bad by a all-in or over the top bet. | ||
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| Re: Check-Raising in No Limit, stdioh, 5. Aug 2003 14:49 | ||
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| Because in no limit you are often betting to try to knock somebody off a hand or to make them pay to draw. Because of the massive implied odds, players are unlikely to bet into scary boards because there is so much at stake. Lets say that you are holding a flush draw and you are out of position. The position player bets at the pot on the flop and you call with your overcards and flush draw. You hit a nut flush and now you want to checkraise. Your opponent may well be sitting on only top pair and if you check he will likely check too. It is very hard to induce him to bet here - you have to know him to be an idiot. Likewise, lets say that you turn 2 pair and have the bettor on top pair, good kicker. You might checkraise here in a ring game because you want to maximize your profit, but in a NL game you're much better just making a sizeable bet. How about this - you flop top set, but the board is 7s9hJh. Chances are pretty good that your hand is the best right now, but there are a lot of draws against you. Lets also say that there was a late position preflop raiser. Now in early position in a ring game, you'll likely go for a checkraise here. Let the bettor bet and then you can raise to fold off draws. In a NL game you can just bet out with a pot sized bet and fold the crazy draws yourself then and there. Basically, checkraising is a tool to extract extra money from a good hand that isn't as good as yours or to make a larger bet. In NL you can do both by just betting more. Now, here's where I do like to checkraise in NL - the chechraise bluff against a smaller stack. Lets say that I have top pair with a marginal kicker on the flop and I bet out half pot against one opponent. He makes a minimum raise and I call, but I'm fearing that he has me beat and I'm now drawing. He's a fairly weak player. I have T2000, he has T1000 and the pot now has T500. The turn brings a scare card, lets say it completes a flush. I don't want to bet - I would be happy to check it down and see if I'm good. Now he leads into the pot with only a minimum bet, showing a fair deal of weakness. Lets also say that he's not one to get too tricky and try to make baiting bets like this. I now decide to checkraise the scare card and make a pot sized raise. He's got a choice of folding or going all in. Unless he actually made the flush, if he's a reasonable player he will fold his 1 pair there. Likewise, I'll limp reraise with AA in early position at a very agressive table as it allows me to shove all in with them and either make a decent win by folding everybody preflop or drag along a sucker. | ||
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