|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 8/30/2008 12:44:43 AM PACIFIC |
 Folding high PP?, Swagman, 2. Aug 2003 04:57 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Looking at QQs and above as my enemy because they represent large swings in my upward momentum. Fitting and folding is fine because it represents little loss to my chip stack, but when playing with these blessed creature they can play havoc with my chip stack. Looking at general ways of playing these high PPs. Raising pre-flop for value and to remove trash, represents 2 bets. betting the flop because I'm am likely looking at a field of lower numeration makes it a 3 bet scenario, and so on and so on. I mean I understand looking at a threatening board should tell me to slow it down, but it seems too often if I dont set I am looking at being beaten by a 2-pair or just someone drawing out on me completely. These PPs are a blessing and a curse, because they represent my greatest chance of winning money, although the pot is generally slight, but they also represent my greatest downward slide. Any suggestions how to play them to remove the great deviation they present would be appreciated. I'm hoping I am not sounding like a moron, but with the majority of flops you know where you stand, and it will cost you very little to bail out on them, but with high PPs they can represent serious catastrophe, because unless your blantantly looking at a losing flop or betting pattern your generally in the hand for at least 4 bets with these PPs. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Folding high PP?, WilliamS, 2. Aug 2003 07:21 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I am in no way an expert; but I feel PPs especially the ones you mention (QQ and above) are some of my most profitable hands. By your post I am assuming you are playing limit hold'em with many loose players who are calling your pre-flop raise which increases the "schooling" effect. If you aren't pleased with this you might try NL or 5-6 max tables where this isn't so common. In NL, you can make people pay too high a price pre-flop to look at the flop; and if they are willing to pay that price you have a HUGE advantage because you have a made hand. In short table games, there is a similar effect because the pot odds aren't there to make drawing hands profitable. So, all in all, regardless of your short-term results I suggest to continue getting your money in the middle with the best hands (high PP) Again, I'm new to the forum and in no way do I consider myself an expert. Will | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Folding high PP?, 4 POKER, 2. Aug 2003 13:21 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Good post William. High PP will definitely be your bread and butter type holdings, there's no question about it. It's how you play them after the flop comes out that will now have some effect on your bankroll. If you have a strong read over your opponents and can make the most accurate decisions on your own holding in any given situation, then these hands in the long run will absolutely be profitable; but the other holdings that you play as well must also be played (or not played) correctly as well. If you play your hand correctly, that's all you can ask for. If someone calls you and beats you, then so be it. The only thing *you* can do is to make the best and clear-minded decisions that you can make and nothing else. Having discipline to throw them away will also be a key factor in these hands as well, but that's all part of your correct thinking process. If you find that you're getting run down too often with these high PP, than you may want to sit in a 6 player max game or as William suggested.....try playing in a NL game and punish the players who chose to call your big raise with an inferior hand. Maybe you think that these hands are disasterous overall because those are the hands that we tend to remember when we get outdrawn by someone, but keep in mind......they *are* your money makers for sure. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Folding high PP?, Swagman, 2. Aug 2003 17:18 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| thanks for all of your input. I think what 4 poker states that playing a field of ten with this cards can really wave havoc with your positive chip growth. Understanding there value in a NL game as well, and I have no issue with betting, raising and even folding on the same street. Just inherently with these cards there is a larger chip investment with them. So losing with your pocket As twice in a row (which is a normality for me) really makes your grind all the more annoying. Where this is not quite the same lets say when you are fitting and folding for 1 bet and make your flush on the turn say. this kind of action you can count on generaly 1 of 2 things a steady increase in chip, or a steady decline. I'm really wondering about my game cuz its an aggressive style with high flunctuations in my stack. More then not, I leave the table with more then I had arrived with, However, I think my greatest flunctuation comes from this PP. Feels like 1 step upwards with my PPKs, and I take 2 step backwards with them. Bah, o well thanks for listening. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Folding high PP?, DJpoker, 2. Aug 2003 23:21 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Hey Swag, The high pairs are definite money makers, but I have found that at the 3-6 level, it is almost impossible to raise to drive somebody out. If you are in EP, you will drop a few of the tighter players, but not eveyone will go. I personally have no problem 3 or 4 betting before the flop with AA, KK, QQ. As everyone here will say, you must consider who is raising. I will respect some people who make the third bet, but I rarely care about 1 raise if I have these hands. The reason why I don't care about the raises is because usually people are paying me to see the flop. Granted, my pair will get busted up from time to time, but in reality, the odds are with you in the long run with these pocket pairs. Good luck. By the way, I played 7 hours tonight and never got any pocket QQ, KK or AA and my two AK got all shot to hell even when AK came on one of the flops. Not only that, but my pocket 8's during a kill pot (6-12) floped a set. It was 3 bet before the flop so with 4 callers (nice $80 before flop) we drew a 10 - 8 - 5 flop. Yeah I'm making money. The rasier was in 1st position and bet out, #2 folded, #3 called, I raised, 1st reraised, #3 called and I called. I thought my raiser had a big pocket pair. Turn brought a 9. For some reason, 1st checked. #3 checked and I bet thinking there was weakness. 1st simply called as did 2nd. River brought a meaningless 3. No flush draw. 1st and 2nd checked, so I pumped it. 1st just called and 2nd folded. 1st says I got trips and I say I'm afraid to ask if it is the 5's or 10's. He tosses up the 10's. I was in shock! I guess when I look back, I'm glad he slowed down. Later I asked him why and he said he thought I might have a straight. Guess I was glad he thought that cuz it would have cost me a ton more money. As it was, those 2 hands came toward the end of my session and ate up over $100 of my profit. Oh well, still managed another winning session. DJpoker | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Folding high PP?, Swagman, 3. Aug 2003 00:15 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| exactly what Im saying with those PP8 and PP10. It takes alot of money to make money with em, and if you lose to em twice in a session say, your looking at a serious downward swing of momentum. Thinking cpu analysis correct see everything cheaply. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Folding high PP?, DJpoker, 3. Aug 2003 00:23 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| > exactly what Im saying with those PP8 and PP10. It takes alot of money to make money with em, and if you lose to em twice in a session say, your looking at a serious downward swing of momentum. Thinking cpu analysis correct see everything cheaply. PP8 vs PP10 was tragic LOL, but that rarely happens. I totally agree with you about seeing the flop as cheaply as possible. I'm just saying that with AA KK QQ it shouldn't bother you to raise pre-flop because you are getting maximum value for your PP. I almost never raise in LP anymore unless I have AA. I will raise or 3 bet from MP with all 3 and raise from EP. The biggest thing to me is what others have said, don't get married to the the PP if the flop receives a ton of action. Good luck Swag. DJpoker | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Folding high PP?, MozMan, 2. Aug 2003 11:17 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Hey Swag- I often struggle with the same thoughts. Here's my take in theory: A lot depends on the texture of the game and the situation. Yes, you need to rasie before the flop to drive out trash, but if something scary happens on the board and you are getting a lot of resistance and no help, you need to be ready to dump them in a heartbeat. I once heard someone say that a really good player can raise and fold on the same betting round, and a holding like this is a good example of where you might be able to do this. Let's say you have QQ, you raise and three see the flop. If the flopgivs you no help, but has overcards, like 9TA. You might bet out to see where everyone is, but if someone raises back at you, you are getting the answer you are looking forr, and a flod might be in order. Basically, do feel married to your hand just because it's a high PP. -Moz "I smoke 'cause I'm hoping for an early death, and I need to cling to something." | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network |
|