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Server Time: 11/19/2008 2:34:18 PM PACIFIC |
 Why do I suck at these?, Schuster, 1. Aug 2003 22:19 | ||
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| I cannot seem to crack the secret to online NL stuff. SnG's and multi table tournaments seem to get the best of me and I really am at my wits end trying to figure out why. I have no problems in live tourneys, which is the real puzzle! In a live game, I have a lot more feel as to the player, and I can do things like... well, bluff, but I can't seem to get a good grasp of the online players. Here's a typical example. There's one early limper and I make a pot sized raise with AKo. The flop comes rags. I generally bet the pot to try to pick it up, but they call? Then I have no read, no idea where I stand, and no idea where they stand. If the turn is another rag, would you continue betting? Do you check if they check it back? It just seems to open the door for a river bluff, which I of course can't call. So I've committed a decent number of chips to a hand where I may have folded what was best. Gah! The other thing is that it seems like some folks on party poker are willing to call an all in with practically nothing. I saw a guy call an all in on the turn with king high when there was an ace on board. Nice. Generally my strategy in the multi's is get a hand and then bet the hell out of it. No good? It doesn't seem to be working. On the other hand, I practically never call an all in with just top top, early in the tournament. I usually lay down 2 pair as well. Is this a mistake for these fishy games? I've read super system and sklansky's tournament book. I'm going to order cloutier's book soon. Other than that, are there any good tournament books out there? Maybe I just don't have the heart for no limit, which is a distinct possibility. But I do well in live games, so I'm not sure. Any thoughts? | ||
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| Re: Why do I suck at these?, JohnnyG113, 1. Aug 2003 22:50 | ||
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| tonight at party (play money) I built up a bankroll to $3500 went to a NL table posted the $100 got QT off went all in and flopped trips T for a $24,000 winner, got out and went and played some NL2000. | ||
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| Re: Why do I suck at these?, mroban, 2. Aug 2003 07:52 | ||
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| Well if you read Cloutier, he will tell you to shut it down if you get called with AK for exactly the reason you said. Your opponent probably caught a piece of the flop (or a low set) and his river bet more often than not will not be a bluff. If it is a bluff, so what? You had ace high. You make your bet, get called and fold if necessary. Wait for a better hand. Listen, I am no expert and am relatively new to NL. But, I have been having some success by being patient. ALL of my losses can be attributed to a point where I became impatient and tried to push a little too hard. Anyway, I highly recommend Cloutier's book. I think it will help you a great deal. having said that, alot of what Cloutier preaches has to do with reading the other players, something that is difficult to do online. But the key to his technique is being very patient and waiting for the right moments to attack. | ||
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| Re: Why do I suck at these?, Timmay!, 2. Aug 2003 08:34 | ||
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| There is one really simple reason. In live games you are playing against better players. There's a good chance the people calling your AK bet have nothing and are just calling you to the river. Ive found when playing with these "novices" if you do check they will more often than not check you to the river, unless they caught a good card. In the case like you were describing, I probably would have checked once, and if he checked too, Id either fold at any bet from him, or Id go all in...if you have more chips even fish usually wont call an all in bet if they have nothing. The other reason is that live action tournaments rely HEAVILY on tells and bluffing. There's almost no way to tell if an online player is trying to buy the pot, except for very subtle hints like whether or not he checked a preemptive box (like if the guy before him folds and you instantly see a raise, he probably had the "raise/raise any" button checked and he's got a hand). | ||
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| Re: Why do I suck at these?, Swagman, 4. Aug 2003 00:58 | ||
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| Already talked about the potential pitfalls of AK. Its a dangerous hand to play with, and you have just mentioned most of the reasons exactly. Hitting rags means you got nothing. Astute players gonna know that there is a very good likelyhood if they see no A or K on the flop that you hit crapola as well. If rags come and there is any interest in the pot, muck this bad boy. I stopped raising with big slick 90 percent of the time now, and have seen better results with it too. | ||
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