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Server Time: 2/13/2012 10:13:29 PM PACIFIC |
 Internet Ethics, Guru, 1. Aug 2003 14:27 | ||
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| Okay, I'm going to take a second to whine about a pet peeve of mine that was brought up in TKarrde's "Joint Venture" post on the poker side of things. Why is it that, in our country, there is a mystifying idea that ethics don't apply to the Internet? The conversation turned to whether it was ethical to have a buddy or two looking over your shoulder and giving you tips and advice while you were playing your hands. TKarrde (I'm not trying to pick on you. I'm just using part of your conversation to make my point. This is not a personal attack.) made the following comment: "There isn't anything that says you can't have a buddy over your shoulder with whom to discuss the hand. Obviously, you can try to push the B&M standard on to the Internet. But is that realistic?" First, there is something that says you can't have a buddy over your shoulder to help you with the game. It's every rulebook in every poker room in the world. Nowhere is a B&M going to let you do that, so it's an actual written rule in poker. And it's not pushing the B&M standards on the Internet, it's pushing the standards of poker on a poker game. Is it realistic to expect that everyone will follow the rules when no one is watching? No! Hell, it's not realistic to expect everyone to follow the rules when someone is watching, but that's not the point. I doesn't magically become ethical just because you know you can't get caught. It just means you are being unethical, without the repercussions. While I hate cheaters, I have just a little more respect for someone that says, "I know it's wrong, but I'm making the choice to do it anyway" than someone that says, "I can't get caught, so it's all good." At least the first group is honest with themselves about it. Call a spade a spade. If it's unethical, it's unethical regardless of where you are and how likely you are to get caught. Ethics is the thing you do even when no one is looking, so don't delude yourself into believing that it's okay because no one will know. Two side notes: Once again, TKarrde, please don't think I'm attacking you. I have never had any reason to dislike you in any way and I respect the opinions and the additions you bring to this site. I was only making a point about a conversation. Also, I will note that you did not actually say you ever did this. Also, there was a point about a similar situation in which one or two buddies were watching you play the game as you taught them how to play. IMO, this is perfectly ethical and follows the spirit of the rules as long as the other players are in no way helping you play. If you say, "See how I raised with AA preflop? That's the strongest starting hand in HE and you want to......" I wouldn't object to that. Just sharing my opinion for discussion. | ||
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| Re: Internet Ethics, TKarrde, 1. Aug 2003 14:35 | ||
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| Guru - I take no offense to your post. I think it is a great subject of discussion. I can DEFINATELY see why someone would think this is unethical. My discussion was going along these lines... if you take something out of one environment and put it in another environement do you expect that it should act exactly the way it did in the first environment? But good post, Guru. TKarrde "The next best thing to playing and winning, is playing and losing." | ||
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| Re: Internet Ethics, Guru, 1. Aug 2003 14:54 | ||
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| To your point. I don't think that you can take things from environment to environment and expect them to be the exactly the same. Your right, that just wouldn't work, but there are some core things that are going to remain the same. Take the example of life on earth. There are many environments on this planet with any number of variances in how they work, but there are core rules that are always the same. I can't think of a single life form that doesn't need water to survive at some level. All life forms also need nutrients to survive. All earth life forms are carbon based. These are the core needs for life on Earth. Though there are a dizzying array of ways that life satisfies those needs, the core remains the same. To me, there are just certain ethics that are core to poker in any environment and this discussion centers around one of the ones I believe in. I'm relieved you didn't take offense, because I try not to attack people or show disrespect, but it's easy to misinterpret intentions in an environment like this. Have a good night. | ||
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| Re: Internet Ethics, ranwel, 1. Aug 2003 15:38 | ||
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| Totally agree. A good line from some movie to remember: "Honor is a gift a man gives to himself." ranwel | ||
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| Re: Internet Ethics, Swagman, 1. Aug 2003 19:38 | ||
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| Don't think that is entirely unethical. I know poker rooms that will allow a person's spouse to play thier chips if said person is away from the table. It is no different. There is nothing stopping anyone (i.e the best pro in the world) to play your account for you if u wanted him or her too. | ||
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| Re: Internet Ethics, Guru, 2. Aug 2003 05:01 | ||
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| That's different. You're still talking about one person playing each hand. I was talking about two or more people collaberating on the hand. | ||
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| Re: Internet Ethics, chasepoker, 2. Aug 2003 07:17 | ||
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| I dont believe there is anything wrong ethicaly with 100 people all sitting around a screen voicing their opinion on how to play the hand i mean you only get one set of cards and you can only make one decision. It is always down to on person to make the final choice and they can only make one choice. Saying that this is cheating is like saying someone who has a read a book on poker is cheating as they have someone else's opinion help them. Well thats how i see it ! Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: Internet Ethics, guinnessman, 5. Aug 2003 10:18 | ||
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| Interesting topic....I must admit that I do this all the time. I am teaching my girlfriend how to play and I have been coaching her along the way. She has been playin $.50-$1.00 so 90% of the coaching has been after the hand is done since losses won't cost that much. The other 10% of the time, however, is usaually me yelling RAISE when she is going to call to a maniac. I agree this would be WAY out of line at a B&M, but internet IS a different game. You can have odds calculators running while you are playing. You can go all in by disconnecting on a big hand.....I f'ing hate that! Also, how many B&M games can you smoke a joint while playing in your underwear? Guinessman | ||
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| Re: Internet Ethics, Jav, 5. Aug 2003 11:01 | ||
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| I don't know, but if you find one let me know. Wait a second, the thought of a bunch of men sitting around in their underwear changed my mind, no matter how soft the games might be! | ||
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| Re: Internet Ethics, jumpthru, 6. Aug 2003 13:54 | ||
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| I was interested in that past where most poeple aggreed it was bad ethics to have two people working on one hand, or a few looking over your shoulder helping out. And then I read an article by poker pro Daniel Negreanu on his front page of his website...in fact his feature article. http://fullcontactpoker.com/cparticles.php He says that he does that with his friends...plays with a couple buddies on one computer...he seems to think its fine and he is a poker pro. | ||
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| Re: Internet Ethics, 4 POKER, 6. Aug 2003 16:38 | ||
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| on 6. Aug 2003 13:54 jumpthru wrote: > I was interested in that past where most poeple aggreed it was bad ethics to have two > people working on one hand, or a few looking over your shoulder helping out. > > And then I read an article by poker pro Daniel Negreanu on his front page of his > website...in fact his feature article. > > http://fullcontactpoker.com/cparticles.php > > He says that he does that with his friends...plays with a couple buddies on one > computer...he seems to think its fine and he is a poker pro. He seems to think its fine and he is a poker pro?.........So what. This was a post about "ethics", not what Danial N "thinks" is acceptable. I play as a pro myself but please........don't give up what is right just because someone else has no problem with it. Wrong is wrong......regardless of "who" thinks it's right, period. It's done all the time over the internet, I'm sure, but if you're a good enough player, you should be able to play your hands on your own, no? That's my opinion but do what you want......of course. | ||
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