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Server Time: 2/13/2012 3:02:35 PM PACIFIC |
 Playing on the Internet...Any IRS Woes?, e-babes, 1. Aug 2003 11:25 | ||
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| So what's the story with playing with real moneyon the internet? Everyone knows now that Chris Moneymaker won his 2 million through a $40.00 investment at Pokerstars. What's to stop an attorney general from arresting him and making his life miserable? Are there any good books out there on internet gambling and the law? | ||
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| Re: Playing on the Internet...Any IRS Woes?, Brian462, 1. Aug 2003 12:22 | ||
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| Why do you assume he didn't declare his income? | ||
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| Re: Playing on the Internet...Any IRS Woes?, e-babes, 1. Aug 2003 12:35 | ||
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| I'm sure he will pay his taxes.....my point is that a high-profile person one a ton of money with the origins stemming from winnings on an internet gaming site. | ||
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| Re: Playing on the Internet...Any IRS Woes?, TKarrde, 1. Aug 2003 12:42 | ||
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| They are going to get almost 40% from him (and his family) on $2.5M. Do you think they really care about $10k?!?!? TKarrde "The next best thing to playing and winning, is playing and losing." | ||
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| Re: Playing on the Internet...Any IRS Woes?, stdioh, 1. Aug 2003 13:12 | ||
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| Playing poker on the internet is not illegal. It is in a legal grey area wherein it is not specifically legal and not specifically illegal, but when you play on the internet, an argument can be made that you were playing in the foreign country in which the server is located. As a result they would have a *very* hard time convicting Moneymaker and all they would do is look bad. Because it is so prevalent and not being enforced, it is defacto legal. | ||
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| Re: Playing on the Internet...Any IRS Woes?, e-babes, 1. Aug 2003 13:17 | ||
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| ST....good points. thanks for sharing. | ||
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| Re: Playing on the Internet...Any IRS Woes?, gary ford, 1. Aug 2003 13:24 | ||
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| on 1. Aug 2003 13:17 e-babes wrote: > ST....good points. thanks for sharing. The outstanding authority on gambling and the law is Professor Nelson Rose. He has written a book entitled " Gambling and the Law " and writes a column for Cardplayer magazine under that title. He teaches at Whittier College in California and is a very nice man. Feel free to contact him-- and no I'm not his agent, just a friend Gary | ||
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| Re: Playing on the Internet...Any IRS Woes?, Roy Cooke, 1. Aug 2003 13:45 | ||
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| He is not just a very nice man.....He is also a VERY bright man! Roy Cooke on 1. Aug 2003 13:24 gary ford wrote: > on 1. Aug 2003 13:17 e-babes wrote: > > ST....good points. thanks for sharing. > > The outstanding authority on gambling and the law is Professor Nelson Rose. He has written a > book entitled " Gambling and the Law " and writes a column for Cardplayer magazine under that > title. He teaches at Whittier College in California and is a very nice man. > > Feel free to contact him-- and no I'm not his agent, just a friend > > Gary | ||
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| Re: Playing on the Internet...Any IRS Woes?, EC, 1. Aug 2003 16:28 | ||
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| ...except of course that Moneymaker won his money in Nevada. as for the "defacto legal" argument, I'd bet (pun intended) that it wouldn't hold up. Waiters can underreport their tips for years and say "everybody does it" (I know because I once was one), but if the IRS comes calling they ain't gonna hear that, and waiters have been known to get audited moreso than most professions, just like gamblers. Particularly if they determine at some point that online gambling is illegal. Bottom line- if you're making serious money online, it would be in your best interest to report the income, just as you would have to if you won it in a casino. Eli on 1. Aug 2003 13:12 stdioh wrote: > Playing poker on the internet is not illegal. It is in a legal grey area wherein it > is not specifically legal and not specifically illegal, but when you play on the > internet, an argument can be made that you were playing in the foreign country in > which the server is located. As a result they would have a *very* hard time > convicting Moneymaker and all they would do is look bad. Because it is so prevalent > and not being enforced, it is defacto legal. | ||
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| Re: Playing on the Internet...Any IRS Woes?, stdioh, 5. Aug 2003 15:51 | ||
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| Like I said, if you pay your taxes, no problem there. I'm talking about busting people just for playing online and they've never busted anybody for that. So unless you're really concerned that you'll be the first one they get, it isn't going to be an issue. | ||
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| Re: Playing on the Internet...Any IRS Woes?, spawgan, 1. Aug 2003 17:24 | ||
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| I saw a thread from earlier in the week but didn't have time to respond. Right now, gambling online is not per se illegal. However there can be an argument made that using the internet, and more specifically the telephone lines that connect to the internet, to fund accounts to gamble with could violate the Wire Act. Some U.S. Attorneys, such as the one in the Southern District of Texas are trying to take on some high profile and low profile people for violating the Wire Act. I am presently having to represent a e-cash merchant from the Houston area in federal court for allowing people to fund so online casino accounts with his service. The scary thing is that the government is trying to get the customer list. This is a grey area, but some prosecutors are pushing until the appeals courts settle the point. I do not think they will go after everyone, but they are going to pick and choose. Another point when we are talking about declaring income. If your bank account or are using netteller or similar service to deposit winnings into, keep in mind uncle sam can see what you are depositing, and if you have no way to explain the income or why you are not paying taxes, they will start asking some serious questions. | ||
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| Re: Playing on the Internet...Any IRS Woes?, mdf, 2. Aug 2003 07:59 | ||
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| Spawgan, How does this affect the consumer? If the consumer (gambler) uses a straw person such as net teller. The consumer has used the telephone lines to transfer money to net teller true but that is not illegal. Netteller is in control of how the money is transferred to the site. Does it matter if the site is located offshore where gambling is legal? | ||
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| Re: Playing on the Internet...Any IRS Woes?, spawgan, 3. Aug 2003 08:47 | ||
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| If you use a third party to transfer money that you eventually transfer to gamble online you can still be found guilty. Particularly since you have to go to Netteller or the Online Poker site to tell Netteller where to transfer the money. As to your question about the site being off shore, that will make no difference as far as the individual in the States is concerned. If the internet access originates in the U.S., then the government has jurisdiction and can pursue charges against you. | ||
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| Re: Playing on the Internet...Any IRS Woes?, stdioh, 5. Aug 2003 15:53 | ||
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| Even then, the wire act only covers "telephone" which doesn't necessarilly mean telephone lines sending computer data and certainly doesn't mean cable satelite or other methods of paying. Also, there's nothing stopping you from funding your account by mailing in a cheque. | ||
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| Re: Playing on the Internet...Any IRS Woes?, stdioh, 5. Aug 2003 15:52 | ||
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| Agreed, but if you pay your taxes, I can't imagine them getting their dander up over you. First they would make a definitive ruling. Of course America is a pretty scary place so you never know. I live in a country where you get the equivalent of a traffic ticket for posession of marijuana. | ||
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