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Server Time: 12/1/2008 7:03:35 PM PACIFIC |
 Check out betting on this hand, iykisa, 1. Aug 2003 03:01 | ||
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| I (iykisa) never initiated betting ***** Hand History for Game 120608945 ***** 0/0 OmahaHiLoGameTable (PL) - Thu Jul 31 20:37:58 EDT 2003 Table Lucky Stake (Real Money) -- Seat 1 is the button Total number of players : 8 Seat 1: iykisa ( $60.10) Seat 2: shulin ( $50) Seat 4: brooksie1 ( $37.80) Seat 5: SmokedSalmon ( $81) Seat 6: xxskibbyxx ( $42) Seat 7: slam5 ( $104.65) Seat 8: bravoace ( $73.40) Seat 9: Vincere ( $33.70) brooksie1 posts small blind (0.50) SmokedSalmon posts big blind (1) ** Dealing down cards ** Dealt to iykisa [ Qs, Js, Jc, 2d ] xxskibbyxx calls (1) slam5 folds. bravoace calls (1) Vincere calls (1) iykisa calls (1) brooksie1 calls (0.50) SmokedSalmon checks. ** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ts, As, 9d ] brooksie1 bets (5.70) SmokedSalmon folds. xxskibbyxx folds. bravoace raises (11.40) to 11.40 Vincere folds. iykisa calls (11.40) brooksie1 calls (5.70) ** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8s ] brooksie1 checks. bravoace bets (15) iykisa calls (15) brooksie1 calls (15) ** Dealing River ** : [ Ks ] brooksie1 checks. bravoace bets (46) bravoace calls all-In. iykisa calls (32.70) iykisa calls all-In. brooksie1 calls (10.40) brooksie1 calls all-In. Creating Main Pot with $113.40 with brooksie1 Creating Side Pot 1 with $44.60 with iykisa Creating Side Pot 2 with $13.30 with bravoace ** Summary ** Main Pot: $113.40 | Side Pot 1: $44.60 | Side Pot 2: $13.30 | Rake: $3 Board: [ Ts As 9d 8s Ks ] iykisa balance $158, bet $60.10, collected $158, net +$97.90 [ Qs Js Jc 2d ] [ Royal Flush -- As,Ks,Qs,Js,Ts ] shulin balance $50, sits out brooksie1 balance $0, lost $37.80 [ Qc Ac Tc Ah ] [ three of a kind, aces -- Ac,Ah,As,Ks,Ts ] SmokedSalmon balance $80, lost $1 (folded) xxskibbyxx balance $41, lost $1 (folded) slam5 balance $104.65, didn't bet (folded) bravoace balance $13.30, bet $73.40, collected $13.30, lost -$60.10 [ Td Jd 3d 9s ] [ two pairs, tens and nines -- As,Td,Ts,9s,9d ] Vincere balance $32.70, lost $1 (folded) | ||
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| Re: Check out betting on this hand, Roy Cooke, 1. Aug 2003 05:00 | ||
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| WooHoo :-) Roy Cooke | ||
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| Re: Check out betting on this hand, stdioh, 1. Aug 2003 10:15 | ||
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| Well, when you have the up/down and a non-nut flush draw I could definitely see calling a pot sized bet there, but when it is potted and repotted you have to figure that you're probably chopping if you hit a straight and probably losing if you hit a flush. You don't have much invested in this hand and you're being asked to make a giant call here. I think folding on that flop would be ok. Calling - I guess is ok. Now when you hit your flush with your straight flush draw on the turn, this is a bad thing. If nobody bets it, maybe you are good, but when there is a big $15 bet made and a call to that bet, I would tell you that your second nut flush and $2 could get your a cup of coffee. I think that was a really bad call there. You're drawing to 2 outs. Yes, you hit one of them and won the hand - great. That doesn't mean that you played it well at all. Now the fact that your flush was good and that these players were betting and calling without any flush (though the set of aces is reasonable to call with as it has good nut tight outs) doesn't mean that your call with a second nut flush was correct. The only way I can see this being a reasonable call is if you would classify your opponents at that table as "giant idiots" ... which it seems isn't a bad appellation at all. If you really think that there is a very good chance that your flush is good then you can call there. The only problem is implied odds. If the board pairs on the river you know you have to fold and if it doesn't and there is an all-in bet to you, what are you going to do? Essentially your call on the turn commits you to the hand so you may as well just shove all in there and make a set pay more to draw against you in the hopes that you are good. | ||
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| Re: Check out betting on this hand, Jav, 1. Aug 2003 10:55 | ||
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| I liked the outcome, but was a little puzzled at the thinking there as well. In general, is that a good starting hand for Omaha 8? I would think of it as a three-legged hand that would have to flop almost perfect to even continue. | ||
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| Re: Check out betting on this hand, stdioh, 1. Aug 2003 13:27 | ||
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| The more I think about this hand, the more it looks like something that I would throw away at every possible point until the river if playing in a tough crowd, but also I see it as something that I could call along with the whole way if playing with bozos. And since it was a bozo game, I'm changing my mind and saying that the calls are reasonable. | ||
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| Re: Check out betting on this hand, 4 POKER, 1. Aug 2003 13:56 | ||
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| I don't like his call at all on the flop, especially in a pot limit game. With a flop like that and with all that raising, you should be drawing to the nuts *with* solid re-draw. With all that heavy raising on the flop, you should consider that someone is holding the nut flush draw, so even if you do hit the nut straight on the turn, you still have to dodge a bullet on the river if the flush comes. Grant it, he hit a no-brainer straight flush, but what happens the next time when he makes just a flush but no SF? Is he going to pay someone off with a second best hand? Even if he was playing with inferior players, Omaha is still a game of nut hands with nut draws and going for a 2-outer straight flush is not worth taking all the heat, it's just not. Anybody can get dealt a good hand with a much better flop than you too, so to uderestimate your opponents in a PL game can cost you dearly. That hand with that flop is a good example of how to get really trapped in this game for really big money, too. I also feel that one of the reasons why he never initiated the betting was because *his own* hand was not strong enough to bet, and he knew it. Iykisa plays alot of Omaha and I bet he wasn't that thrilled with the flop because of the betting that was taking place, but who knows, maybe he didn't mind putting in alot of money with his hand. If it were me, I would have dumped it right on the flop because the betting was way too high to continue. A good rule of thumb for PLO8 is, get in cheap and get out cheap unless you flop perfect. | ||
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| Re: Check out betting on this hand, stdioh, 5. Aug 2003 15:57 | ||
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| It is all a question of the degree of stupidity of my opponents. I would generally throw it away myself, but I can see an excuse for calling. There are a couple of people I know that I would play the hand against - that much is for sure. | ||
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| Re: Check out betting on this hand, 4 POKER, 5. Aug 2003 17:22 | ||
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| on 5. Aug 2003 15:57 stdioh wrote: > It is all a question of the degree of stupidity of my opponents. I would generally throw it away myself, > but I can see an excuse for calling. There are a couple of people I know that I would play the hand > against - that much is for sure. I understand what you're trying to say but ........... This is pot limit Omaha 8, and regardless of how aggresive and/or idiotic you may think your opponents are.......one of those two players could've very well still flopped a much better hand than the one he was drawing to. You should not be putting in that much money in a PL game unless you're drawing safely to the nuts, and once the turn card brings a nut flush, you really shouldn't be continuing just to try and spike a two-outer on the river. If he had back-up with his hand like drawing to a nut low or even a decent low, then there may be some justification with his call on the turn, but IMO, he made a very liberal call on the flop. If the flop bet had been a very small bet I would say, ok, take a look cheaply but don't get involved after that unless you turn the nut "straight" (broadway). That call that you/or anybody make on the flop may be a call that can wind up costing you a price that could get so astronomically high in PL, that if you're not drawing to at least one side of the pot with a nut hand and/or draw, it's really not a good idea to put any more money in. The only nut hand that he *was* drawing to on the flop was a gut-shot straight (4 outs), and with the betting becoming that heavy on the flop he really is supposed to fold there and wait for a better spot. Stdioh..........IMHO, I think what you said *first* was more correct than after you thought about it some more. . Anyway..... | ||
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| Re: Check out betting on this hand, stdioh, 6. Aug 2003 09:05 | ||
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| ok...you've converted me back to what I said originally. It is true that in PLO8 there is much less concern for the quality of your opponents. Just play right and win off bad players calling you when they shouldn't. | ||
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