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Server Time: 12/1/2008 8:19:08 PM PACIFIC |
 How Bad Was this NLHE play, mroban, 31. Jul 2003 13:29 | ||
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| So last night I played perhaps my best NL HE sitand go (i have won a bunch, but I felt I played my best here) and was in the final 2. I built my stack up to T6900 and had beat my opponent down to T2900. We were even when the game went heads up. I was basically raising him when I was on the button and he was folding hands about 50% of the time when he had the button. This was going on for a while. Finally, he called on the button and I checked with T5os. Flop comes 533. He checks and I raise him all in, trying to end the game right there. He shows 77 and the turn and river are blanks. I had figured that he would have raised me with a medium to large pair (or any pair) but he really was quite timid, and I completely misread him. Now the roles are reversed and he became more aggressive. I continued with my original strategy, but now with more chips he came over the top a few times and forced me all in beating my KT with an AT after flopping TTx. Anyway, I think I was way to quick too try and end the game at that point and I could have bludgeoned him down probably to T1500 before I tried that. Allowing him to double up from almost T3000 gave him too much strength. Is that unusual in that situation for a player to flat call a medium pair like that? Was he playing timid or trying to trap me? Seems odd to try and trap with a 77. I clearly would have called a pot sized raise (I was playing almost every hand at that point since he was so timid). If he wanted action, he could have easily made a pot sized raise. I actually might not have called that with this hand, but he would have to think I would play it. Anway...thought I had a nice read and a win there, but I blew it. Too bad because I had played my best game in getting to that point. Alas... | ||
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| Re: How Bad Was this NLHE play, chasepoker, 31. Jul 2003 13:36 | ||
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| Maybe he slow played a 77 as he saw you were being very agressive and decided to make a stand there ( knowing you would bet it for him )also with a flop of 533 heads up a 77 isnt looking too bad. Heads up you are right to be aggressive i think but you have to realise that if he is folding everything he gets that when he eventualy does play a hand it is more likely than not to be a good hand ( or at least better than average ) Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: How Bad Was this NLHE play, Wren, 31. Jul 2003 13:54 | ||
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| You didn't say how large the blinds were and how big your stack was at the point you put him all-in. It wouldn't be a bad move in some cases, but in others it would be an example of a move he would only call if he had you beat (of course, you don't mind folding off hands like KJ that could stick around and catch a bigger pair). Ah wait...just re-read your post and it seems he had 3000 at this point. Unless the blinds were ridiculously high (300-600 or something), pushing all-in here is excessive. Going by what you said of your opponent, a pot-sized bet would have certainly been big enough to get him to release anything that couldn't currently beat you (but could catch on a future street if you let him in cheap). on 31. Jul 2003 13:29 mroban wrote: > So last night I played perhaps my best NL HE sitand go (i have won a bunch, but > I felt I played my best here) and was in the final 2. I built my stack up to > T6900 and had beat my opponent down to T2900. We were even when the game went > heads up. I was basically raising him when I was on the button and he was > folding hands about 50% of the time when he had the button. > > This was going on for a while. Finally, he called on the button and I checked > with T5os. Flop comes 533. > > He checks and I raise him all in, trying to end the game right there. He shows > 77 and the turn and river are blanks. I had figured that he would have raised > me with a medium to large pair (or any pair) but he really was quite timid, and > I completely misread him. > > Now the roles are reversed and he became more aggressive. I continued with my > original strategy, but now with more chips he came over the top a few times and > forced me all in beating my KT with an AT after flopping TTx. > > Anyway, I think I was way to quick too try and end the game at that point and I > could have bludgeoned him down probably to T1500 before I tried that. Allowing > him to double up from almost T3000 gave him too much strength. > > Is that unusual in that situation for a player to flat call a medium pair like > that? Was he playing timid or trying to trap me? Seems odd to try and trap > with a 77. I clearly would have called a pot sized raise (I was playing almost > every hand at that point since he was so timid). > > If he wanted action, he could have easily made a pot sized raise. I actually > might not have called that with this hand, but he would have to think I would > play it. > > Anway...thought I had a nice read and a win there, but I blew it. > > Too bad because I had played my best game in getting to that point. Alas... > > | ||
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| Re: How Bad Was this NLHE play, mroban, 31. Jul 2003 18:35 | ||
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| Wren: Blinds were 100-200 I think. I just wanted to put him out. Thats why it was a bad play. I was trying to end the game instead of making the correct play. BUT...based on the way he was playing, I think the call with 77 was weird. I mean I was pushing this guy around really good. Why wouldn't he reraise me? I mean 77 isn't good enough to trap with, so he should have just tried to win the pot. Again, if he had made a pot sized bet, I would have called and maybe reraised. Oh well...i still blew it. | ||
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| Re: How Bad Was this NLHE play, JaggedEj, 31. Jul 2003 14:27 | ||
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| Obviously we all agree that your aggressive play is the way to go, but the all ins are definately unneccessary. betting 1000,or 1500 is good enough to make him fold away some hands. And his slow play is not a surprise at all if you were going all in all the time for intimidation. I would have done the exact same thing. | ||
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| Re: How Bad Was this NLHE play, TexRoadkill, 31. Jul 2003 15:20 | ||
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| 1000 bets after the flop are risky in heads up. Whenever I do or see bets like that it's usually a trap to get them to raise or go all in. That is big enough to change the momentum but not big enough to scare off another made hand. That's a good preflop bet though. I think in heads up after the flop you are either checking, folding or are all in every hand. I rarely see a heads up hand go to the river on less than all in bets. I have seen hands get checked to the river. A thousand can be enough to scare off a really crappy hand but an all in would do the same thing and be even more intimidating. You may have been a little too agressive there since you did not have top pair. You could have checked it to see if you caught something good on the turn. If not you could have folded to his probable bet. | ||
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| Re: How Bad Was this NLHE play, mroban, 31. Jul 2003 18:38 | ||
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| clearly that was the right play, I agree. | ||
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| Re: How Bad Was this NLHE play, mroban, 31. Jul 2003 18:37 | ||
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| I don't think a slowplay is a bad play, just 77 isnt exactly a powerhouse, especially b/c I had an overcard. In fact, after the flop, both cards that hit were both overcards. I wouldn't say he got lucky, but again, if I had his hand I would have raised preflop. | ||
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| Re: How Bad Was this NLHE play, Andrew Wells, 31. Jul 2003 18:48 | ||
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| I doubt he necessarily wanted action. He was probably looking for a reasonable flop to go all-in. Your flop bet was simply the right invitation. He was only trying to wait until he thought he was a favorite, so you probably could have just kept pecking away successfully. | ||
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| Re: How Bad Was this NLHE play, mroban, 31. Jul 2003 21:22 | ||
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| aint that the truth...its amazing that I can be so successful pecking away and then in a fit of impatience, shift strategy and blow the game. Thanks guys for all the input. | ||
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