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Server Time: 12/1/2008 7:18:00 PM PACIFIC |
 tourney hand, philly, 31. Jul 2003 12:21 | ||
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| UB nl multi 326 players about an hour and a half in. Blinds 75/150 Player 2 seats to my left is drawing out on everyone, but I had recently won two nice pots from him. He seems to be hell bent on revenge and is getting involved in every hand I play. I'm dealt KK in the blind. Everyone folds except he is only limper. I figure if I push all in, he will call with inferior cards. He calls with 10cJc. Needless to say three clubs come on the flop and I'm toast. Even though my read was on the money, and I had the opportunity to double up putting me in great position for the stretch run, was this too big of a gamble? Was it actually me on tilt and not him? All thoughts and critiques would be appreciated. Philly | ||
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| Re: tourney hand, mkpoker, 31. Jul 2003 12:30 | ||
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| This is an easy one, IMHO. You unquestionably made the right play. If you acted before the "tilter," I'd wouldn't have pushed all-in at this point. However, because he only limped, you can be relatively certain that he doesn't have AA--and *you're a strong favorite for every other hand* Add to that your correct read that "tilter" may call with inferior cards motivated by spite (where are these players when I'm online!) and this adds up to an easy, easy, decision. He just got lucky. | ||
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| Re: tourney hand, kgb, 31. Jul 2003 12:48 | ||
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| Was that by any chance a 25 point buy-in game that started at 12AM EDT? | ||
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| Re: tourney hand, TexRoadkill, 31. Jul 2003 13:01 | ||
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| I really don't understand the wisdom in going all in pre-flop unless it is a heads up deal. Even with AA it is still a gamble. I will do it when I am short stacked in a tourney and it's all or nothing but if you're not backed into a corner why gamble everything? I've seen small pairs and junk beat AA, KK too many times to think of it as a sure thing. Since he limped in you could be certain that a good flop would have him beat. You could have slow played it and tried to sucker him in if the flop was good for you. To me that is the difference between gambling and playing poker. | ||
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| Re: tourney hand, chasepoker, 31. Jul 2003 13:19 | ||
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| If i could go all in with all my chips with a 4-1 edge then i would do it every time. This is especialy true at the start of a tourny. If it was on or near the bubble or i was going all in as a big chip leader versus someone of similar stack size i might play it differntly but in early on i go all in. Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: tourney hand, Mark, 2. Aug 2003 08:47 | ||
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| You can't always wait for the nuts cause you'll get blinded out waiting. Knowing that his opponent would call with a dog hand, Philly made a great play with a great read. A pro would make that play everytime, no matter what the results are, because KK is such a big favorite over all but 2 of the 20 or so hands the opponent would call with. Good play Philly mark | ||
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| Re: tourney hand, shorn, 31. Jul 2003 13:18 | ||
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| I disagree with your all-in. It is way too early in the tournament to risk all of your chips when a simple 4x the BB would let you know where you stood. Yes, he made a stupid call and got lucky, but if he didn't and you won, you really haven't won anything. The only hand I would ever consider doing this with is AA and it would only happen if he had made a large raise and it was a later round of the tourny. Remember...your goal for the first 6 rounds of the tourny or so are to survive with enough chips to make a run at the final table. | ||
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| Re: tourney hand, chasepoker, 1. Aug 2003 06:34 | ||
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| Shorn do you think that having a 4-1 edge to go all in is not acceptable ? I am interested in this as i am analysing a lot of my play in tournys and am trying to work out if getting a big early chip lead is worth the risk associated with it ? I constantly change my mind on the subject but i 'think' that it acceptable to go all in with a big edge in the early stages od the tourny but am not 100% convinced. on 31. Jul 2003 13:18 shorn wrote: > I disagree with your all-in. It is way too early in the tournament to risk all of > your chips when a simple 4x the BB would let you know where you stood. Yes, he made > a stupid call and got lucky, but if he didn't and you won, you really haven't won > anything. The only hand I would ever consider doing this with is AA and it would > only happen if he had made a large raise and it was a later round of the tourny. > Remember...your goal for the first 6 rounds of the tourny or so are to survive with > enough chips to make a run at the final table. Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: tourney hand, shorn, 1. Aug 2003 11:03 | ||
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| I think that it is too early in the tournament to risk all of your chips when you don't have too. The question I ask is "What hands would/should call an all-in raise?" Basically, AA, KK, and maybe AKs and QQ. So, I would rather make a large raise to try to get him to lay it down (like 4-6x the BB), and if he just calls, then potentially put him all-in on the flop assuming there is no Ace in it. Perhaps I play more convservatively than most, but my thought is winning all of this guys chips does not guarantee me a whole lot in terms of moneying in the tournament, so I don't like to risk all of my chips when I could be in trouble if called. | ||
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| Re: tourney hand, Mark, 2. Aug 2003 08:51 | ||
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| Shorn, he had a good read and was right to make the all-in. This is not a case of only being called when your beaten. He knew his opponent would call with a garbage hand. *IF* you were playing and the opponent went all-in first and you KNEW he had 10J suited, would you call? I think it would be bad poker not to call. So, if you also know he would call you with a dominated hand, it would be right to get all your money in when you are a favorite. mark | ||
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| Re: tourney hand, stdioh, 31. Jul 2003 13:27 | ||
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| Nothing wrong with that. TJs is a giant dog to kings. You did fine. You got all the money in while you had the best of it and when there was a slim chance of him having AA. Smile, say, "good hand" and leave. But in general you shouldn't be making raises that will only be called by AA. Sounds like this was ok, but only because you were juicing a bad player with it. I find that there are so many idiots in the big UB tourneys that going all in with AA, KK, and even QQ early on like that often gets callers with inferior holdings. | ||
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| Re: tourney hand, Andrew Wells, 31. Jul 2003 18:58 | ||
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| Nope, you played the player. It was 90 minutes into a multi, neither too early nor too late to cripple or bust someone that may be steaming or to stop a rush. You knew you would get called by enough inferior hands to warrant making the all-in move against this chip pusher. | ||
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| Re: tourney hand, dan, 1. Aug 2003 03:57 | ||
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| When you see that guy again, just remember he is the lucky one and you are the skilled one and take his money away... | ||
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