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Server Time: 12/1/2008 7:28:05 PM PACIFIC |
 how much to bet on flop, muriel palacci, 30. Jul 2003 08:22 | ||
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| This is pot limit tournament: I had KK under the gun with blinds at 50/100. Stacks were around 1500-3000 each, 9 players; I had 2000. I raised to 300 and had 2 callers. The flop comes 3-5-6 two suited and I bet 400 .I get one caller. The turn has a insignificant rank card but makes 3 suited on board so I check. The river brings a 2 . I check and other player bets 300. I call and he shows 2-5 as pocket cards to make two pair !! Regardless of how he played I want to know if I raised enough on the flop. If I think I have the best hand on flop how much should I put in ? What other errors did I make ? | ||
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| Re: how much to bet on flop, Mark, 30. Jul 2003 08:39 | ||
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| I always look to take down a pot on the flop with an over pair, there are many ways your overpair can run into trouble. mark | ||
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| Re: how much to bet on flop, shorn, 30. Jul 2003 08:46 | ||
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| Why not bet the pot on the flop? This would make every draw to your hand pay the max and scare off anyone holding top pair with an Ace. In a tournament, you can't afford to F around with a big overpair like that. Yes, your opponent got really lucky, but I think you can force him off his middle pair/gutter with a $750 bet there. Even if you don't, he is only getting 2 to 1 on his call for 9 outs (a 4 to 1 shot). | ||
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| Re: how much to bet on flop, stdioh, 30. Jul 2003 09:10 | ||
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| I think a pot sized bet on the flop would have been better, but you have to weigh your ability to get away from the hand too. If a pot sized bet won't let you out then you might want to just shove all in there. | ||
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| Re: how much to bet on flop, TexRoadkill, 30. Jul 2003 09:52 | ||
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| That's a tough hand. Why would he stay in for 3BB with 2 5? Was he the chip leader or BB? I would have placed him on Ax straight draw after he called that flop and probably gotten out. You do need to be aggressive with an over pair or top pair but it's a risky call. You can bet right into the player with the nut flush/straight. I had a similar hand last night on a SNG. I had QQ and decided to be conservative preflop. One guy flopped full house 8,10,10 . He previously was a card showing bluffer and he made a value bet after the flop. I ended up going all in right into his hand. | ||
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| Re: how much to bet on flop, muriel palacci, 30. Jul 2003 10:04 | ||
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| on 30. Jul 2003 09:52 TexRoadkill wrote: > That's a tough hand. Why would he stay in for 3BB with 2 5? Was he the chip leader > or BB? > yes he was chip leader at my table (mutli table tourney) and lucky up until then. I think his pre flop call was wrong. however, I felt after the hand that I played too conservatively on the flop and should have bet on the flop anywhere from 6 times the BB (600) up until the pot (around 1000). that was half my stack but what I'm learning is often it's more dangerous NOT to put in a big raise if you think you have the best hand. thanks everybody for advice. | ||
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| Re: how much to bet on flop, Asher, 30. Jul 2003 10:42 | ||
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| How do you check the turn? And you bet the flop, you didnt raise it. | ||
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| Re: how much to bet on flop, muriel palacci, 30. Jul 2003 10:55 | ||
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| On 30. Jul 2003 10:42 Asher wrote: > How do you check the turn? And you bet the flop, you didn't raise it. I am first in on the flop and I bet 400 (4x BB). The turn was scary with a gutshot draw and three suited on board so I checked. Was this wrong ? | ||
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| Re: how much to bet on flop, Jav, 30. Jul 2003 11:23 | ||
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| Absolutely. You have to make them pay to beat you. You don't want to assume that your opponent made a flush if there is 3 on the board (I'm talking heads up here). He might have made it, and he might not have. But you absolutely don't want to let him draw free to the flush if he only has one of the cards. Same goes for gutshot straits. If you give him infinite odds to draw to an inside straight, you're making a huge mistake. | ||
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| Re: how much to bet on flop, Asher, 30. Jul 2003 21:56 | ||
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| Yes. Nice post Jav. A more experienced player will appreciate the value in betting. For muriel, I think a flame will help more than a detail explanation - at least it will piss him off a little and his head will start realing about how much people blab about how smart they think they are, and that will get him thinking about his own play of the hand, and eventually he'll come around to really evaluating the possibility that betting was the best choice - aaaaahhhh, and then thats where real growth happens. By the way, take a look at how much Howard Lederer or Daniel Negreanu or other world class players go over and over, and over, and over a single hand that they played. They ask opinions from other good players, and have dreams about the play of every street, in an attempt to improve their play. Their hard work is the key to their success. Keep thinking, keep analyzing, that is the key to understanding. Asher. | ||
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| Re: how much to bet on flop, Andrew Wells, 30. Jul 2003 16:27 | ||
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| Your flop bet is okay (more is a decent alternative), but I would have continued to bet the turn despite a three flush available. I'm not going to give a free card to someone who may be still drawing (like ace of suit with a small pair). Something about half the pot should be sufficient. If there's a made flush or set lurking out there and I get popped on the turn, then I probably let go. I'm not going to go out weak with the big overpair, despite the call on the flop. | ||
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