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Server Time: 12/1/2008 3:24:03 PM PACIFIC |
 Oh Beautiful Hand Moneymaker, Asher, 29. Jul 2003 21:24 | ||
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| Yeah. Thats all. Grrrrrrrreat Hand. I almost had to puke after that turn. Very well played Humberto Brenes - You identified the guy so puffed up on pride and cockyness he thought he was invincible, and then proceded to seperate him from all his chips... Unfortunately there is a turn and river. By the way, I really enjoyed the show put on by Howard Lederer, Men the Master, Phil Ivey and Scotty tonight - Great poker guys! Asher | ||
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| Re: Oh Beautiful Hand Moneymaker, Guru, 30. Jul 2003 07:14 | ||
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| I have to admit that I'm not that impressed with Moneymaker so far. Calling all-in with a pair of eights is just stupid. I was pretty proud of the fact that a player from my great state of Tennessee won the whole thing. I also kinda like to see the amateurs take down the pros, who seem to disrespect them so much, but I'm starting to see why they do. Then again I would argue that betting $100,000 on 3-8 offsuit is pretty stupid too. The thing gets me is that when an amateur makes a stupid move, everyone says that they weren't skilled enough. When Scotty Nyguen does something stupid like that, they say he must have had a read or that he was playing brilliantly against the man, not the cards. I think that pros just do stupid things from time to time and ge credit for it. I started feeling so bad for Humberto, who semed to keep getting screwed. | ||
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| Re: Oh Beautiful Hand Moneymaker, noiseboy, 30. Jul 2003 09:35 | ||
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| I think the ESPN coverage didn't really show what was going on very well. Most of the money was already in at the point that Humberto declared all-in, and it wasn't that much more to call for Moneymaker since he had a lot more chips than Humberto Humberto was trapping Money with his AA's, but sometimes traps backfire when they succeed. Basically, Moneymaker's only error was that he misread Humberto as being weak. | ||
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| Re: Oh Beautiful Hand Moneymaker, Frank Grimes, 30. Jul 2003 10:59 | ||
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| I'm glad to see someone else acknowledge that commentary on the WSOP usually reflects a huge bias to the pros. It's tiresome to see every move made by a Chan or Nguyen treated as if it's pure poetry and every success of an amateur chalked up to luck. Over the long haul, the best pros will make better and more successful moves than the amateurs, but on any given hand that is not necessarily true. There certainly was not enough information on the Moneymaker/Brenes hand to discern whether Chris made a wise decision--all we saw was the turn and the river and none of the prior betting. | ||
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| Re: Oh Beautiful Hand Moneymaker, shorn, 30. Jul 2003 11:46 | ||
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| It hink two overcards to my pocket pair and a guy betting in to me should have been enough information to lay it down. Certainly risking all of your chips on 3rd pair isn't generally a good idea. And, if it weren't for the 2 outer, none of us would have ever heard of the guy. | ||
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| Re: Oh Beautiful Hand Moneymaker, Jav, 30. Jul 2003 12:58 | ||
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| He didn't risk all his chips, he had a large chip lead at that point over his competitor. But still, probably not a good idea. He must have thought the other player was trying to buy the pot from him... | ||
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| Re: Oh Beautiful Hand Moneymaker, noiseboy, 30. Jul 2003 14:26 | ||
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| He had a lot more chips than Humberto, so he wasn't risking all his chips, he was risking all his OPPONENTS chips. Plus, there was a lot of money already in the pot from previous action. | ||
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| Re: Oh Beautiful Hand Moneymaker, shorn, 31. Jul 2003 04:32 | ||
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| OK, so what both of you are saying is that it was a good move to put Humberto all-in to a pot he was probably comitted to at that point with an underpair to two cards on the board?? If that is the case, then i might as well give up on NL... | ||
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| Re: Oh Beautiful Hand Moneymaker, Andrew Wells, 30. Jul 2003 17:14 | ||
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| Huge bias to the name players, sure. What the heck was that comment about letting Phil Ivey double up being like leaving the door open for Charlie Manson? How did that get past the editing? | ||
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| Re: Oh Beautiful Hand Moneymaker, tpir90036, 31. Jul 2003 11:45 | ||
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| seriously!! my roommate and i were half-jokingly saying how espn was being racist by not profiling ivey at all in any of the episodes even though he is one of the premiere players in the world.....and then norman chad unloaded that charles manson blast!?! what the heck was that? maybe we were right.... | ||
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| Re: Oh Beautiful Hand Moneymaker, DJpoker, 30. Jul 2003 22:19 | ||
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| "The thing gets me is that when an amateur makes a stupid move, everyone says that they weren't skilled enough. When Scotty Nyguen does something stupid, they say he must have had a read or that he was playing brilliantly against the man, not the cards. I think that pros just do stupid things from time to time." Well put Guru. I was watching WPT tonight and Phil Hellmuth goes all in with K-J and loses to K-Q. He says I can't believe he had K-Q, but here he is putting himself all in with K-J. Just two weeks ago on ESPN WSOP, Phil spends the whole day chastising the Sam guy for winning a pot when he called Phil's A-Q raise with a K-J (Sam ended up with trips). Granted Phil ended up bouncing Sam later that day, but it illustartes how the oft heralded Pro of all Pros even makes dumb mistakes. Phil is like Mcenroe or Rodman though. You watch because you never know what will happen. DJpoker | ||
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| Re: Oh Beautiful Hand Moneymaker, tpir90036, 30. Jul 2003 07:57 | ||
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| how did phil ivey make such a huge comeback? or was the action shown waayyy out of chronological order? he lost like 100,000 in one hand but then was back at the feature table with 60,000 again. as an east coast guy and a youngster i wish they would do a little piece on him. even though i know what happens i am still rooting for him to win ;) | ||
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| Re: Oh Beautiful Hand Moneymaker, Guru, 30. Jul 2003 09:56 | ||
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| He doubled up with two hands in a row. | ||
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| Re: Oh Beautiful Hand Moneymaker, Brett Welch, 30. Jul 2003 10:06 | ||
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| Guru, You said that you were from TN. I was wondering what city I live in Hendersonville. Know any good home games? | ||
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| Re: Oh Beautiful Hand Moneymaker, Bond18, 30. Jul 2003 11:20 | ||
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| I gotta admit though, I loved that scotty nguyen move, especially his little "21!" and showing everybody the cards stunt. Granted pros don't tend to tilt nearly as much, but I gotta think that got to Brenes a little. And in Moneymakers defense on day 3 against paul darden he played his 33 great and made the right move against chan setting him all in. | ||
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| Re: Oh Beautiful Hand Moneymaker, DJpoker, 30. Jul 2003 22:32 | ||
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| True Bond, Moneymaker definitely played the 3's well. The problem wih ESPN's coverage is just like the WPT. We only see the big hands and then only parts of those hands. They entered the humberto hand midway through after showing something else. They still haven't displayed a graphic about the chip leaders. They announce it, but you never really know what the heck is going on. Although it was very uninformative about the tourney, I loved the 2nd day when Phil and Sam were talking smack to each other. DJpoker | ||
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| Re: Oh Beautiful Hand Moneymaker, Guru, 30. Jul 2003 13:22 | ||
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| I live up in Clarksville and I don't know of any home games around here. | ||
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