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Server Time: 12/1/2008 7:06:29 PM PACIFIC |
 Poker room closing, Double Down, 29. Jul 2003 20:43 | ||
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| Just got back from Mohegan Sun, while I was playing my usual 3-6 Hold'em, the dealer was talking about how the casino is closing down the poker room. They will be putting in .05 slot machines. How can a casino shut down a poker room when poker is in a boom right now. I know slots return a large portion of money, but come on, what are they thinking? | ||
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| Re: Poker room closing, Roy Cooke, 29. Jul 2003 20:47 | ||
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| For casinos poker is high maintenance and low return.....Lots of employees...Lots of legal issues....Lots of floorspace required.....Slots return $25+ an hour of play....with little maintenance.....You can fit a lot of slots into a poker room.....The numbers for a casino poker room do not work if floorspace is limited in the casino Roy Cooke! on 29. Jul 2003 20:43 Double Down wrote: > Just got back from Mohegan Sun, while I was playing my usual 3-6 Hold'em, the > dealer was talking about how the casino is closing down the poker room. They > will be putting in .05 slot machines. How can a casino shut down a poker room > when poker is in a boom right now. I know slots return a large portion of money, > but come on, what are they thinking? | ||
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| Re: Poker room closing, Double Down, 29. Jul 2003 21:01 | ||
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| I agree, logically it makes sense. But there is also a need to provide good customer service. The casino nets a large amount of money. For every poker player they will now not be getting in their casino, they will not be getting the player's spouse, buddies or family members that play slots, craps or roulette. These people also eat there, drink there, see shows. They need to look at the overall picture. In the overall scheme of things, the poker room may not provide the highest income per square foot, but do they really need to worry about maximizing this or keeping customers happy and loyal. Foxwoods is just a stones throw away. | ||
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| Re: Poker room closing, Roy Cooke, 30. Jul 2003 07:04 | ||
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| Believe me, I want the poker rooms to survive....I have had this conversation with casino execs before and they say it is not enough of a reason to keep poker rooms open.....They are better off spending marketing dollars from increased slot revenues to run slot tournaments with better hold..... Roy Cooke on 29. Jul 2003 21:01 Double Down wrote: > I agree, logically it makes sense. But there is also a need to provide good customer > service. The casino nets a large amount of money. For every poker player they will now not > be getting in their casino, they will not be getting the player's spouse, buddies or > family members that play slots, craps or roulette. These people also eat there, drink > there, see shows. They need to look at the overall picture. In the overall scheme of > things, the poker room may not provide the highest income per square foot, but do they > really need to worry about maximizing this or keeping customers happy and loyal. Foxwoods > is just a stones throw away. | ||
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| Re: Poker room closing, beigs, 30. Jul 2003 04:25 | ||
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| If there is anything Mohegan Sun is lacking it is NOT floor space. The place is huge and extremely popular. And the poker room was pretty crowded and spread a lot of games. I'd hate to think that place was having the sort of financial troubles that would warrant closing the poker room. on 29. Jul 2003 20:47 Roy Cooke wrote: > For casinos poker is high maintenance and low return.....Lots of employees...Lots of > legal issues....Lots of floorspace required.....Slots return $25+ an hour of > play....with little maintenance.....You can fit a lot of slots into a poker > room.....The numbers for a casino poker room do not work if floorspace is limited in > the casino > > Roy Cooke! > > on 29. Jul 2003 20:43 Double Down wrote: > > Just got back from Mohegan Sun, while I was playing my usual 3-6 Hold'em, the > > dealer was talking about how the casino is closing down the poker room. They > > will be putting in .05 slot machines. How can a casino shut down a poker room > > when poker is in a boom right now. I know slots return a large portion of money, > > > but come on, what are they thinking? | ||
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| Re: Poker room closing, gary ford, 30. Jul 2003 08:24 | ||
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| on 29. Jul 2003 20:47 Roy Cooke wrote: > For casinos poker is high maintenance and low return.....Lots of employees...Lots of > legal issues....Lots of floorspace required.....Slots return $25+ an hour of > play....with little maintenance.....You can fit a lot of slots into a poker > room.....The numbers for a casino poker room do not work if floorspace is limited in > the casino Considering the ambivelance about poker in Las Vegas, why do some casinos ( and their executives ) embrace poker and others ignore it? I understand the Bobby Baldwin influence, but what inspired the Orleans to expand their poker room? Available space due to the expansion-- or a shreweder marketing team? Most poker room operations could best be described as passive and operating at way below potential. They have no tracking systems, no business development systems, and think of poker players as lower class citizens. The end result will be waiting lists at Bellagio, Mirage, and the Orleans and 50% capacity at the others who are currently elated because they are getting a 20% increase in spite of themselves. From what I understand, there is now a shortage of poker dealers due to the boom. Maybe they should send for the Mohegan Sun dealers??? Do you think its possible that some casino "execs' will rethink their positions in light of what is now obvioualy a boom in the desire to play live poker? Your opinion , please--Gary > > Roy Cooke! > > on 29. Jul 2003 20:43 Double Down wrote: > > Just got back from Mohegan Sun, while I was playing my usual 3-6 Hold'em, the > > dealer was talking about how the casino is closing down the poker room. They > > will be putting in .05 slot machines. How can a casino shut down a poker room > > when poker is in a boom right now. I know slots return a large portion of money, > > > but come on, what are they thinking? | ||
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| Re: Poker room closing, Roy Cooke, 30. Jul 2003 08:50 | ||
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| There was discussion amongst top management NOT to open a room at the Bellagio.....It was told to me that Bobby Baldwin was the one that talked Steve Wynn into it.....The MGM rooms are leftovers from the Mirage corporation......No other casino on the strip is interested in having poker beyond low-limit small rooms.. Reasons....Markers get stiffed and players won the money (Not the house) and must be paid......Casino tourists lose their money to other players NOT the house.....The amount paid on lawsuits (Mostly due to fights) is higher per dollar intake than other areas of the casino....It is employee and management intensive......and it takes in much less than other gaming avenues..... Several local casino do put in small games....They do not have the marker issues from big games, the cost per SF in the casino is MUCH less due to lower land acquisition costs (Strip land is now over $2,000,000 an acre), the game is popular amongst the locals and they NEED the draw much more than the strip casinos. Roy Cooke on 30. Jul 2003 08:24 gary ford wrote: > on 29. Jul 2003 20:47 Roy Cooke wrote: > > For casinos poker is high maintenance and low return.....Lots of employees...Lots of > > legal issues....Lots of floorspace required.....Slots return $25+ an hour of > > play....with little maintenance.....You can fit a lot of slots into a poker > > room.....The numbers for a casino poker room do not work if floorspace is limited in > > the casino > > Considering the ambivelance about poker in Las Vegas, why do some casinos ( and their > executives ) embrace poker and others ignore it? > I understand the Bobby Baldwin influence, but what inspired the Orleans to expand their > poker room? Available space due to the expansion-- or a shreweder marketing team? Most > poker room operations could best be described as passive and operating at way below > potential. They have no tracking systems, no business development systems, and think of > poker players as lower class citizens. The end result will be waiting lists at Bellagio, > Mirage, and the Orleans and 50% capacity at the others who are currently elated because > they are getting a 20% increase in spite of themselves. From what I understand, there is > now a shortage of poker dealers due to the boom. Maybe they should send for the Mohegan > Sun dealers??? Do you think its possible that some casino "execs' will rethink their > positions in light of what is now obvioualy a boom in the desire to play live poker? > > Your opinion , please--Gary > > > > Roy Cooke! > > > > on 29. Jul 2003 20:43 Double Down wrote: > > > Just got back from Mohegan Sun, while I was playing my usual 3-6 Hold'em, the > > > dealer was talking about how the casino is closing down the poker room. They > > > will be putting in .05 slot machines. How can a casino shut down a poker room > > > when poker is in a boom right now. I know slots return a large portion of money, > > > > > but come on, what are they thinking? | ||
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| Re: Poker room closing, gary ford, 30. Jul 2003 09:07 | ||
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| Roy---thank you for the insight---Gary | ||
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| Re: Poker room closing, Double Down, 31. Jul 2003 18:48 | ||
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| Just got a reply from Mohegan Sun: Thank you for your email expressing your concern regarding the closing of the Mohegan Sun Poker Room effective September 2, 2003. The Poker market in Connecticut is simply not large enough to accommodate two Poker Rooms. It was a difficult decision but one we felt was necessary to make. It is our sincere hope that you will continue to visit us and take advantage of all the other wonderful entertainment and gaming we have available to all our guests. Whether it is our world class Arena or Caberet shows, fine dining, Four Star hotel or slots and table games, we hope that you will continue to visit with us. Looking forward to seeing you again very soon. | ||
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| Clueless, Big_Slick, 30. Jul 2003 09:44 | ||
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| I think this a marketing disaster. Why would a casino want to give a customer any reason to go somewhere else? (i.e. Foxwoods) Casinos don't make much money on food and drink but that's not a reason to stop offering it. Where do you think my wife is when I'm over at the poker room playing in a ring game or tourney? She's slamming quarters into a slot machine. As a business, you don't stop offering services because you're not making enough money. Little things like coat checks, shuttle buses, valet parking, greeters, large and numerous bathrooms... you offer these as a way to express your gratitude to your patrons and as a way to keep them coming back. Then you've got casinos like Turning Stone outside of Syracuse that actually have the nerve to charge you $2 just for the privilege of playing poker at their mediocre room. More and more casinos are falling into the trap of trying to milk as much money from their customers as possible. I believe the day will come when casinos will be a dime a dozen in areas such as New England. When that happens, casinos like MS will wish they had offered their clientele a better experience. | ||
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| Re: Clueless, MozMan, 30. Jul 2003 10:01 | ||
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| on 30. Jul 2003 09:44 Big_Slick wrote: > Where do you think my wife is when I'm over at the poker room playing in a ring game or > tourney? She's slamming quarters into a slot machine. Funny part is, this is EXACTLY why slot machines were invented. Back in the day, when Vegas was firmly under Mafia control, and the wiseguys would take their girlfriends with them to Vegas (their wives stayed home with the kids) they needed something to keep the bimbos busy while they played poker and talked shop. That's what slots were for. Now, they are no longer just a diversion, but a major source of income. -Moz "I smoke 'cause I'm hoping for an early death, and I need to cling to something." | ||
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| Re: Clueless, Snorbolus, 30. Jul 2003 10:45 | ||
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| > .... I believe the day will come when casinos will be a dime a dozen in areas such > as New England..... Unfortunately I am pretty sure that I remember reading somewhere, that Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun have cut a deal with the state of CT whereby they give a large chunk of their profits from table games to the state and, in return, CT has agreed not to legalize any other form of casino gambling. It is a shame really I am sure that there would be sufficient demand to support at least one or two more poker rooms, especially if they were located towards the NYC end of the state. Snorbolus on 30. Jul 2003 09:44 Big_Slick wrote: > I think this a marketing disaster. Why would a casino want to give a customer any reason > to go somewhere else? (i.e. Foxwoods) Casinos don't make much money on food and drink but > that's not a reason to stop offering it. > > Where do you think my wife is when I'm over at the poker room playing in a ring game or > tourney? She's slamming quarters into a slot machine. > > As a business, you don't stop offering services because you're not making enough money. > Little things like coat checks, shuttle buses, valet parking, greeters, large and numerous > bathrooms... you offer these as a way to express your gratitude to your patrons and as a > way to keep them coming back. > > Then you've got casinos like Turning Stone outside of Syracuse that actually have the > nerve to charge you $2 just for the privilege of playing poker at their mediocre > room. > > More and more casinos are falling into the trap of trying to milk as much money from > their customers as possible. I believe the day will come when casinos will be a dime a > dozen in areas such as New England. When that happens, casinos like MS will wish they had > offered their clientele a better experience. > > | ||
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| Re: Poker room closing, stdioh, 30. Jul 2003 09:23 | ||
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| If they are often filled to slots capacity then it makes sense. Basically, the only reason why casinos have these unprofitable ventures called cardrooms (or I should say less profitable) is so that the wives and girlfriends of poker players come in there with them and sit down at slot machines. So if they have extra space, a poker room is a great idea - it attracts more people and brings in revenue of its own. If they can't fit more slots in, but have the demand for them, chucking the poker room is just good business. | ||
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