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Server Time: 12/1/2008 8:29:44 PM PACIFIC |
 Was this played right?, kgb2005, 29. Jul 2003 19:30 | ||
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| I was in a hand recently in a home game and there was debate as to whether this hand was played correctly by a player. Let me know what you think. each player started w/ $10,000 and it ended up being player A and player B with around $35,000 a peice, basically dead even. player A gets ace/king. player B gets 8/9. player A raises $5,000 b4 the flop. Player B calls. flop comes King-8-4 with none of them suited. player A opens with $3,000, player B re-raises $2,000. Player A calls. the Turn is a 2. neither player has a flush draw. player A opens w/ $5,000 and player B raises all-in. Player A calls and the river is a 8. the debate was whether player B played the hand correctly. Some say he was stupid but raising all-in with the mid pair and the king above him. They argue that he had to put player A on high ones with the raises before the flop and raises every round of betting. some say player B made the right move. Do u think player B played this hand smart of stupid. let me know. | ||
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| Re: Was this played right?, Tim C, 29. Jul 2003 20:03 | ||
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| kgb player B should have mucked preflop, you do not go heads up with a big stack. Player B got lucky, he should have been busted. | ||
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| Re: Was this played right?, stdioh, 30. Jul 2003 09:28 | ||
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| That is a good point. Player B shouldn't have defended with that pig of a hand, but seeing as he did, I think he played the hand ok. | ||
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| Re: Was this played right?, palman, 29. Jul 2003 20:31 | ||
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| Player B played wrong, and simply end of debate. Lemme know who he is, I'll play with him anytime =) | ||
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| Re: Was this played right?, Machinegun68, 29. Jul 2003 20:45 | ||
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| Player B played absolutely brutally. He totally should have known he was BEAT. Unless this guy raises EVERYTHING before the flop (even 72o) which I highly doubt, Player A should have put him on Kings or at the very least a bigger pocket pair than his 8s. I would not have called the $5000 raise pre-flop in a NL game. Player B is either ignorant, an absolute maniac, or a habitual "chaser." If he is a chaser I would like to play with him. One of my buddies is a habitual chaser, chasing down even case cards all the way to the river. I know for sure that he is stuck around $200 just in the last week or so. Please, never ever think that this guy (player B) played well at all. I am basically a beginner and his play was like a giant red flag to me reading your post. | ||
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| Re: Was this played right?, Risky Business, 30. Jul 2003 06:33 | ||
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| Do the math and you'll realize the many cards/outs that player A can have to beat player B. Start by realizing 8-10, 8-J, 8-Q, 8-K, 8-A beats him!! on 29. Jul 2003 20:45 Machinegun68 wrote: > Player B played absolutely brutally. He totally should have known he was BEAT. Unless > this guy raises EVERYTHING before the flop (even 72o) which I highly doubt, Player A > should have put him on Kings or at the very least a bigger pocket pair than his 8s. > > I would not have called the $5000 raise pre-flop in a NL game. > > Player B is either ignorant, an absolute maniac, or a habitual "chaser." > If he is a chaser I would like to play with him. One of my buddies is a habitual > chaser, chasing down even case cards all the way to the river. I know for sure that > he is stuck around $200 just in the last week or so. Please, never ever think that > this guy (player B) played well at all. I am basically a beginner and his play was > like a giant red flag to me reading your post. | ||
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| Re: Was this played right?, shorn, 30. Jul 2003 06:29 | ||
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| Yes, player B should not have ever called the pre-flop raise, nor should he have raised the flop bet. However, why the hell didn't player A put him all-in on the flop?? With that board and the only two reasonable hands that can beat him being KK and AA, I think he also played poorly. I wonder if Player B would have called for all his chips on the flop with just an 8? | ||
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| Re: Was this played right?, stdioh, 30. Jul 2003 09:28 | ||
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| Well, lets leave poor player B alone. The important thing is that player A played very badly. First of all, when he raised $5000 preflop and then only bet $2000 on the flop, he is giving player B correct odds to draw with 1 pair and is also giving the impression that he missed, making player B's playing back at him ok. After trapping player B into raising there with an inferior hand though he *doesn't capitalize on this with a big reraise. Bad bad bad. Now player A doesn't try to fold off his opponent while holding a vulnerable single pair. He should bet the turn hard when a brick comes, but he again gives player B both odds to draw and hope that he is good. Thus, player B pushes all in rather correctly because player A is playing like he has garbage - maybe AQ. Player B assumes that his hand must be the best and shoves in, was wrong, but gets lucky. Long story short, player A played the hand totally wrong and because of that I think that player B didn't play badly...he played intelligently in response to player A's bad play. Of course player B had no business calling preflop, so the point is moot. Sounds like two terrible poker players having at eachother. | ||
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| Re: Was this played right?, TexRoadkill, 30. Jul 2003 13:38 | ||
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| I agree the big mistake was made by player A. He should have gone over the top after B raised post flop. He gave the hand to B. If I am short stacked I would expect the chip leader to bet with any pair and I wouldn't expect him to only call a raise with high pair K and an A kicker. I would have placed player A at the same hand or worse and tried for a steal. | ||
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| Re: Was this played right?, PokerFun, 31. Jul 2003 10:00 | ||
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| I am still new at this, but let me give you my thoughts and hopefully others can respond. Looking at it from both views, I don't think either player really played it too wrong. You didn't let us know what the blinds were. Were they 100? 500? 5000? That would make a difference in how strong the raise was before the flop. Also, in No limit heads up, playing loose would be a lot better than tight because someone tight will be run over waiting for playable hands. The loose player can just raise with anything and steal enough blinds to make up for when the tight player calls and has the better hand. People argued that the 89 should have never been played. In my experience, I disagree with this. Heads up you can play a lot of cards before the flop. Usually a pair or two pair is going to take down the pot. The raise before the flop probably indicated two high cards or a pocket pair. Here is why I think each played correctly. A raised before the flop to get more money in the pot or to steal the blinds right there. On the flop, he hit his top pair, and the board was uncordinated. Here, A wants to trap B into calling correct? Make the most out of this hand as possible. A bets a small amount, enough to get a call. When B reraised, he probably wanted to show strength so the next round was checked to him in case the turn didn't help. A could have raised all in here and been in great position. This was the only real mistake I saw. Anyways, turn comes a blank, and A fires away again. When B goes all in, its a tough call with top pair because you would have to think B had trips on the flop at this point with the raise, and now the raise all in. A must have had a good read though and made the right call, calling all in. River came unlucky and this is just a bad beat. Now from B's point of view. The raise preflop indicates strength right? B could have been playing to steal the pot on the flop if it didn't come with high cards or A didnt' show strength. Again, A didn't show strength on the flop, so I think B made a nice play coming back over the top with a pair. A could easily hold AQ, AJ, QJ in a heads up match, those are all good raising hands. The Turn couldn't help A, so again B sensed weakness and tried to take down the pot there showing great strength with the All-in. He was unlucky in getting called you could say, but he did have outs if he does get called by the better hand. He had only 5 outs that could help, but he hit and won the hand. Do you guys think this analysis is about right or way off? This seems like both guys could have played this hand differently, but the way they played it wasn't necesarily wrong either. Both seemed to sense something in the other to make the moves they did. As always, its not over til the river, and that's part of the game. This seems similar to the Moneymaker-Brenes hand. Moneymaker tried running Brenes out of that pot with the big bet. He instead got called, but drew out on Brenes. | ||
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