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Wild Hand at UB I want to share, mroban, 29. Jul 2003 09:20
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Here is a hand I played in the other night in a $2-4 LHE game at UB. Feel free to let me know if you think I played the hand badly, but I am re-telling it because it is kind of funny.

I am UTG+4 with Ac8c. UTG1 folds, UT2 (our villain a very loose aggressive player) limps (he had been raising many hands), I decide to play (the others behind me had been very passive) and limp as well. The rest limp to the button who folds, the SB folds and the BB checks.

The flop comes Tc2s4c giving me the nut flush draw. BB checks, UTG2 bets out and I re-raise (figuring the limpers behind me would call and not raise). 3 callers behind me including the BB (as expected). Since UTG2 limped, I put him on a JTos or T9 os, figuring him to raise with anything stronger including a pair. I ruled out a set on that basis.

The turn brings 2d, which I figured for a blank using my above logic. BB checks, UTG2 raises again and now I am a bit concerned that maybe he has a 2 and played something like J2 suited or more likely A2. So I call instead of raising and everyone behind me calls as well. This too has me nervous, although these guys appeared to be major calling stations.

On the River, i get Jc which makes me my flush, although with the board paired, i obviously didn't have the nuts. BB checks (again) and UTG2 bets out. Hmmm. I decide that he couldn't have had pocket 22 or 44 b/c he would have (I thought) raised preflop. So I narrowed him to JT (which he would have made his 2 pair), a smaller flush (easily would have been betting like this with any flush draw) or A4 or A2. So I raise and 2 callers call behind me, the BB folds and UTG pauses.

Why is he pausing? If he had the nuts, he would immediately reraise right? I must be the winner. Finally, after a lenghthy delay, he was declared All In.

Turns out I was dead wrong. He was holding pocket 44 (ugh) but because he timed out, I was returned $12. So hilariously, I totally misread the hand, got pounded, but salvaged 2/3 of my bet and only took a $6 beat all together.

I would say here that the poker gods were with me for sure.

Did I totally misplay that hand or would others have made the same conclusion (based on the assumption that this guy was as loose as I believed him to be).

Of course, I may have misread this guy and he might have been a decent player all along.
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Re: Wild Hand at UB I want to share, trwebb26, 29. Jul 2003 09:58
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The thing that I don't like how you played it was that you totally represented the club draw. The rest of your play is difficult to analyze because there isn't much information about the other players.

Generally, I don't play hands like that for the exact situation you ran into. Lots of people in the hand = big chance you'll get busted.
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Re: Wild Hand at UB I want to share, mroban, 29. Jul 2003 12:31
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good point trwebb. I suppose betting like that makes the nut flush draw pretty obvious (lots of players do that). Still, until the 2 came on the turn, I was not drawing dead.

Would you have folded this hand with that many players behind me? Was that the better play (percentage wise?).

Would you have shut it down when the 2 came on the turn? I am sure he would have raised preflop with pocket JJ so that only left pocket 44 or 22 as possibilities and I didn't think either here.

At what point would you have folded the hand here?
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Re: Wild Hand at UB I want to share, Wren, 29. Jul 2003 10:16
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I wouldn't have raised the flop since you want all the other players coming in to give you odds to draw. If you were in late position, it would have been a more viable play. But since you did raise, and you got all those cold-callers, I'd be worrying about at least one set out there already, and possibly other flush draws, thus giving you less outs to make your hand. I'd be very unimpressed with the turn, but still put in a call. If one of the players behind me would now raise, I'd have to reconsider things, and possibly muck, depending on the nature of the raiser. No one raises, so it's *likely* no one behind you has a boat, or even trips at this point. Good. But there's still the early position player to worry about. I'd tend to put in a call, and not raise, the river. Why? For a couple reasons: (1) If the EP player has you beat, you save a bet (2) If you are good, you are likely to get at least a call or two behind you, and possibly a raise from a smaller flush.

In any case, yeah you lucked out that you saved that extra money there.

on 29. Jul 2003 09:20 mroban wrote:
> Here is a hand I played in the other night in a $2-4 LHE game at UB. Feel
> free to let me know if you think I played the hand badly, but I am re-telling it
> because it is kind of funny.
>
> I am UTG+4 with Ac8c. UTG1 folds, UT2 (our villain a very loose aggressive
> player) limps (he had been raising many hands), I decide to play (the others
> behind me had been very passive) and limp as well. The rest limp to the button
> who folds, the SB folds and the BB checks.
>
> The flop comes Tc2s4c giving me the nut flush draw. BB checks, UTG2 bets out
> and I re-raise (figuring the limpers behind me would call and not raise). 3
> callers behind me including the BB (as expected). Since UTG2 limped, I put him
> on a JTos or T9 os, figuring him to raise with anything stronger including a
> pair. I ruled out a set on that basis.
>
> The turn brings 2d, which I figured for a blank using my above logic. BB
> checks, UTG2 raises again and now I am a bit concerned that maybe he has a 2 and
> played something like J2 suited or more likely A2. So I call instead of raising
> and everyone behind me calls as well. This too has me nervous, although these
> guys appeared to be major calling stations.
>
> On the River, i get Jc which makes me my flush, although with the board paired,
> i obviously didn't have the nuts. BB checks (again) and UTG2 bets out. Hmmm.
> I decide that he couldn't have had pocket 22 or 44 b/c he would have (I thought)
> raised preflop. So I narrowed him to JT (which he would have made his 2 pair),
> a smaller flush (easily would have been betting like this with any flush draw)
> or A4 or A2. So I raise and 2 callers call behind me, the BB folds and UTG
> pauses.
>
> Why is he pausing? If he had the nuts, he would immediately reraise right? I
> must be the winner. Finally, after a lenghthy delay, he was declared All In.
>
> Turns out I was dead wrong. He was holding pocket 44 (ugh) but because he
> timed out, I was returned $12. So hilariously, I totally misread the hand, got
> pounded, but salvaged 2/3 of my bet and only took a $6 beat all together.
>
> I would say here that the poker gods were with me for sure.
>
> Did I totally misplay that hand or would others have made the same conclusion
> (based on the assumption that this guy was as loose as I believed him to be).
>
> Of course, I may have misread this guy and he might have been a decent player
> all along.
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Re: Wild Hand at UB I want to share, mroban, 29. Jul 2003 12:09
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Wren:

Perhaps this is an overthink, but I felt like if I just flat called all the way down, it makes a draw too obvious.

Otherwise, I agree that raising the flop was probably the wrong play

Where I really went wrong I think is in ruling out the set. Had I considered the possibility I would have played the hand closer to how you suggested. I guess my thought was the create some deception so that I get paid off huge if I hit the flush and can win with an ace too.

Anyway, hilarious how lucky I got with the all in.

Thanks Wren.
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Re: Wild Hand at UB I want to share, mroban, 29. Jul 2003 12:34
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Also Wren, great thought about the other smaller flushes out there reducing my odds. Its pretty fundamental and yet that is something that I often fail to consider in these situations.

Thanks again, great response.


on 29. Jul 2003 10:16 Wren wrote:
> I wouldn't have raised the flop since you want all the other players coming in to
> give you odds to draw. If you were in late position, it would have been a more viable
> play. But since you did raise, and you got all those cold-callers, I'd be worrying
> about at least one set out there already, and possibly other flush draws, thus giving
> you less outs to make your hand. I'd be very unimpressed with the turn, but still put
> in a call. If one of the players behind me would now raise, I'd have to reconsider
> things, and possibly muck, depending on the nature of the raiser. No one raises, so
> it's *likely* no one behind you has a boat, or even trips at this point. Good. But
> there's still the early position player to worry about. I'd tend to put in a call,
> and not raise, the river. Why? For a couple reasons: (1) If the EP player has you
> beat, you save a bet (2) If you are good, you are likely to get at least a call or
> two behind you, and possibly a raise from a smaller flush.
>
> In any case, yeah you lucked out that you saved that extra money there.
>
> on 29. Jul 2003 09:20 mroban wrote:
> > Here is a hand I played in the other night in a $2-4 LHE game at UB. Feel
> > free to let me know if you think I played the hand badly, but I am re-telling it
>
> > because it is kind of funny.
> >
> > I am UTG+4 with Ac8c. UTG1 folds, UT2 (our villain a very loose aggressive
> > player) limps (he had been raising many hands), I decide to play (the others
> > behind me had been very passive) and limp as well. The rest limp to the button
> > who folds, the SB folds and the BB checks.
> >
> > The flop comes Tc2s4c giving me the nut flush draw. BB checks, UTG2 bets out
> > and I re-raise (figuring the limpers behind me would call and not raise). 3
> > callers behind me including the BB (as expected). Since UTG2 limped, I put him
> > on a JTos or T9 os, figuring him to raise with anything stronger including a
> > pair. I ruled out a set on that basis.
> >
> > The turn brings 2d, which I figured for a blank using my above logic. BB
> > checks, UTG2 raises again and now I am a bit concerned that maybe he has a 2 and
>
> > played something like J2 suited or more likely A2. So I call instead of raising
>
> > and everyone behind me calls as well. This too has me nervous, although these
> > guys appeared to be major calling stations.
> >
> > On the River, i get Jc which makes me my flush, although with the board paired,
> > i obviously didn't have the nuts. BB checks (again) and UTG2 bets out. Hmmm.
> > I decide that he couldn't have had pocket 22 or 44 b/c he would have (I thought)
>
> > raised preflop. So I narrowed him to JT (which he would have made his 2 pair),
> > a smaller flush (easily would have been betting like this with any flush draw)
> > or A4 or A2. So I raise and 2 callers call behind me, the BB folds and UTG
> > pauses.
> >
> > Why is he pausing? If he had the nuts, he would immediately reraise right? I
> > must be the winner. Finally, after a lenghthy delay, he was declared All In.
> >
> > Turns out I was dead wrong. He was holding pocket 44 (ugh) but because he
> > timed out, I was returned $12. So hilariously, I totally misread the hand, got
> > pounded, but salvaged 2/3 of my bet and only took a $6 beat all together.
> >
> > I would say here that the poker gods were with me for sure.
> >
> > Did I totally misplay that hand or would others have made the same conclusion
> > (based on the assumption that this guy was as loose as I believed him to be).
> >
> > Of course, I may have misread this guy and he might have been a decent player
> > all along.
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Re: Wild Hand at UB I want to share, LEEBOG, 29. Jul 2003 10:24
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Some ppl play that way, when they are raising they got garbage, when they have something they just call before the flop. And you already deemed him an aggressive player, meaning that when he bets, u think he has nothing, so you raise, meanwhile he has a monster. Thats how they make money, they always get called.
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Re: Wild Hand at UB I want to share, mroban, 29. Jul 2003 12:27
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actually Lee, I had this guy pegged as a guy that would raise with any pair. So the fact that he didn't raise ruled out (erroneously) the set. I think the guy was probably a better player (maybe) then I gave him credit for.

He didn't raise preflop with his 44 so I put him on a top pair with a good kicker or a lesser flush draw or straight draw.

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