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Server Time: 12/1/2008 7:26:56 PM PACIFIC |
 Hand winning percentage?, Wren, 29. Jul 2003 07:33 | ||
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| UB just recently added a "Stat" tool which allows you to view a number of statistics at any point during a session. Some of these include hands played, hours at the table, flops seen, and % of hands won. I've been struggling quite a bit online lately at the low limit hold'em games (mostly .5-1), and I've noticed that during most of these recent sessions (on 10-handed tables), my win % has been 4-5%. I realize that a solid player will have a lower win % than your average calling station or maniac, but I'm wondering what an "appropriate" win % is. Is 4-5% too low? I'm thinking that an average 7-9% win rate is more appropriate. I realize that this will, and should, change depending on game texture, but I'm wondering specifically about loose games in which players range from decent, to bad, to INCREDIBLY bad. | ||
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| Re: Hand winning percentage?, sburne, 29. Jul 2003 08:30 | ||
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| divide 100%/10 = 10% is your fair share. I think you need 13-14% to cover the blinds. I think you have serious problems if you're down at 4-5%. For a "holding my own" table, I average 15-17%. When I am getting cards and zoned...25% | ||
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| Re: Hand winning percentage?, stdioh, 29. Jul 2003 10:42 | ||
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| No! You should not win 10% of hands for sure. Your fair share? If everybody plays every hand then you should win 10%. Since you are tight and playing at a loose table you're not even going to play much more than 10% of hands. Lets say you play in 20% of hands and since it is so loose you get 5 players per hand. If you win 2/5 of them then you're doing well. That would be an 8% win rate and IMHO, I think that 6%-8% is "normal" for a solid tight player playing with fish. 13% screams that you are a fish. | ||
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| Re: Hand winning percentage?, gary ford, 29. Jul 2003 08:40 | ||
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| on 29. Jul 2003 07:33 Wren wrote: > UB just recently added a "Stat" tool which allows you to view a number of > statistics at any point during a session. Some of these include hands played, > hours at the table, flops seen, and % of hands won. I've been struggling quite a > bit online lately at the low limit hold'em games (mostly .5-1), and I've noticed > that during most of these recent sessions (on 10-handed tables), my win % has > been 4-5%. I realize that a solid player will have a lower win % than your > average calling station or maniac, but I'm wondering what an "appropriate" win % > is. Is 4-5% too low? I'm thinking that an average 7-9% win rate is more > appropriate. I realize that this will, and should, change depending on game > texture, but I'm wondering specifically about loose games in which players range > from decent, to bad, to INCREDIBLY bad. I think "cash" % is even more important than "win " % Avg would be 30% ( 3 0f 10 ) If you finished 3rd 100% of the time you would earn $4 per tourney more if you moved up after making the top 3. Its all about money not titles. Gary | ||
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| Re: Hand winning percentage?, sburne, 29. Jul 2003 08:44 | ||
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| On second thought, that might be what I do on Empire Poker stats...... which is probably not the same number. | ||
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| Re: Hand winning percentage?, Reddog214, 29. Jul 2003 09:04 | ||
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| I average around 10 % on UB low-limit, but I also think you need to take into account, you average pot win. If you are maximising your wins (pot-size), and keeping your losing hands down to minimum money, then possibly a lower % isn't that bad | ||
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| Re: Hand winning percentage?, wolvish, 29. Jul 2003 09:31 | ||
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| I usually average from 8 - 12%. If I'm getting amazing cards, probably about 20%. You don't have to win 10% of your hands, although theoretically speaking that would be about right. It's about the money you are winning, not how many games you've won. I've had nights were I've won 3% of the hands I've played in 3-6 and still came out up 150. Don't worry too much about the stats and concentrate on how many big bets you are making per hour. wolvish | ||
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| Re: Hand winning percentage?, Guru, 29. Jul 2003 09:27 | ||
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| Hey Wren, I've started to ignore that stupid stat box because I don't understand most of it. It seems to make no sense. In reference to the win% though, I've found 4-5% to be just fine. After that weekend that you and I were getting pummelled, I took a couple of days to retool my game and have been doing well since. I've noticed that I do very well at the 5% level, because you have to remember you're probably seeing half the flops or less than most of the clueless fish, taking fewer chip count swings, and likely maximixing your wins. In this case quality of win is far better than quantity. Guru | ||
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| Re: Hand winning percentage?, McMonkey, 29. Jul 2003 09:44 | ||
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| I lean toward the side of not trusting the UB stats. I'm usually pretty good about figuring out tables and the math behind it and such, but that whole thing just confuses the hell out of me. Last night the stats implied that I was winning 21% of the hands but that I also folded 100% pre-flop as well as check-raising 100% of the time on the flop. They really need to re-tool that a bunch before it's something that is helpful (to me at least). As far as winning %, I agree with everyone else that it can be a very misleading stat (even when calculated correctly). The way I see it, it's just one more thing to throw at the fishes to distract them from what's important, playing the cards correctly. I say ignore it and continue to play solid - which it seems you can do based on the last UPF tourney. | ||
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| Re: Hand winning percentage?, Jav, 29. Jul 2003 09:46 | ||
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| I would think a little lower than 10% should be about right. You would win 10% (obviously) on average if every player played every hand to completion. But since you are a good player with good starting hand considerations, you won't be playing near as many hands as most people at those tables. What was your flop seen %? In a normal session that can fluctuate based on what kind of cards your getting dealt, but on average I bet it's around 30% (including the blinds). So if that was true, you would have to win about 1/3 of the flops you saw to average a 10% win rate. I usually try not to pay much attention to those stats because they frequently seem to be wrong to me. Like I'll have played four hands, won one, and have my win % be something other than 25%. I just don't know how they calculate those stats, but I don't think it's always straightforward or useful how they do it... | ||
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| Re: Hand winning percentage?, stdioh, 29. Jul 2003 10:44 | ||
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| Actually, if you play every single hand to completion you win more than 10% because many times a player correctly folds a hand which later turns out to be the best. I think that playing every hand to the river and calling every river bet would let you win between 20%-25% of hands depending on the other players, assume loose and fishy opponents. | ||
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| Re: Hand winning percentage?, Jav, 29. Jul 2003 10:47 | ||
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| Sorry, I meant if every player played every hand to completion. | ||
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| Re: Hand winning percentage?, Don Quixote, 29. Jul 2003 16:48 | ||
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| Wren, since I started tracking my stats with Poker Tracker 18,000 hands ago, my stats are as follows: (at Party/Empire) Saw the flop 31% of the time. Won $$ .0745 of hands played. Win rate per hour was 3.78 BB's As many others have pointed out, % of hands won is lower for tighter players. Since my see-the-flop % is 31, I suppose I would be considered slightly loose. I could play tighter, and the stats would be effected somewhat; but I play for fun mostly and like playing more hands. Anyway, I am satisfied. My overall stats for this month have been just over 6 BB W/R per hour, even after going downhill since the UPF tournament. I suppose I should quit playing the NL stuff, but it is so much fun. I thought you might be interested in my stats from a longer-term perspective, and I hope this helps. I really dont worry too much about stats, and I have used Poker Tracker to improve my game because I can see more clearly my mistakes and the mistakes of other players. My game (ring games) has improved a great deal as a result of Poker Tracker. Not shilling for them, really. It has simply been a great, small investment along with my small library of poker books. I have played at your table many times, starting way back when Stars was doing BETA testing; and I know that you have forgotten more about poker than I will ever know. This long-winded essay is meant for everyone here at UPF that might be concerned about their stats. Thanks for reading. Don Quixote (Diogenes at UB) on 29. Jul 2003 07:33 Wren wrote: > UB just recently added a "Stat" tool which allows you to view a number of > statistics at any point during a session. Some of these include hands played, > hours at the table, flops seen, and % of hands won. I've been struggling quite a > bit online lately at the low limit hold'em games (mostly .5-1), and I've noticed > that during most of these recent sessions (on 10-handed tables), my win % has > been 4-5%. I realize that a solid player will have a lower win % than your > average calling station or maniac, but I'm wondering what an "appropriate" win % > is. Is 4-5% too low? I'm thinking that an average 7-9% win rate is more > appropriate. I realize that this will, and should, change depending on game > texture, but I'm wondering specifically about loose games in which players range > from decent, to bad, to INCREDIBLY bad. | ||
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| Re: Hand winning percentage?, WilliamS, 29. Jul 2003 19:51 | ||
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| I wonder what the optimum ratio b/w flops seen and hands won would be. (I don't have a long enough history to draw from but the last couple days I've kept that ratio around 50%.) It seems to me that should be a very key and useful number. | ||
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| Re: Hand winning percentage?, chasepoker, 30. Jul 2003 04:39 | ||
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| The thing about stats is that, hey guess what , it all depends. If you are at a tight table where you can steal pots and pick up the blinds often then yes maybe 13% would lead to a winning game but if you are at a game where people are capping it pre flop every hand the same 13% figure will lead to you going broke. Also you cant really rely on stats unless you start using a lot of them as i might not play a hand for an hour if i dont get any cards but then i might get dealt 10 hands on the trot and play them all ! I think a better stat to use is ammount of $ in pocket. Chasepoker | ||
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