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Server Time: 2/13/2012 5:54:34 AM PACIFIC |
 How would you play this?, Schuster, 26. Jul 2003 22:17 | ||
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| I'm playing in a low limit game on party, and I'm in the cutoff with KQo. I limp, and 5 of us take the flop, including the big blind, 2 early, and one middle position player. Flop is: A 9 4 I don't remember suits, but it was rainbow. It was checked all the way to me, and I check along. The turn is a king that puts a flush draw on the board. It's checked to the middle position player, the player right before me, and he bets. What would you do? Lee | ||
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| Re: How would you play this?, Big_Slick, 26. Jul 2003 22:51 | ||
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| With 5 people seeing the flop, the odds of one of them having an Ace is pretty good. We all know that any ace gets played in many of the low limit games. The fact that the hand got checked around after the flop doesn't necessarily mean that a player doesn't have an ace. I would fold the hand and wait for a better opportunity. | ||
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| Re: How would you play this?, Swagman, 26. Jul 2003 22:59 | ||
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| not entirely a bad move to bet here. generally come out betting if Im checked to. Someone holding an Ace with low kicker could be threatening, but at least a bet tell you where you stand, and your kicker is a good one. If somone is willing to play with you then you might wanna slow down in future streets. | ||
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| Re: How would you play this?, Andrew Wells, 27. Jul 2003 00:43 | ||
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| I'd let it go. You still have to survive the river, and it's not at all clear that you have the best hand. If you're going to play, then raise. You may get someone who checked again with ace-rag believing you slowplayed middle or bottom set. If you are able to knock out the button, you may get to check it down on the river against the bettor. | ||
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| Re: How would you play this?, Roy Cooke, 27. Jul 2003 08:15 | ||
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| The correct play would be a function of the texture of your opponent....Is he a player that would bet any ace on the flop?......If he is, I would raise the bet.....If he is the texture of player that would check an Ax on the flop then I would muck the hand. Other questions I would ask is the propensity of this player to check-raise and/or slowplay....Also, are the other players likely to check an Ace and call the raise?.....The greater the propensity the more likely I am to muck.... This is a good question...and a tough decision. Most good questions are a function of the situation and therefore the answer depends of the texture of the current situation. Roy Cooke on 26. Jul 2003 22:17 Schuster wrote: > I'm playing in a low limit game on party, and I'm in the cutoff with KQo. I > limp, and 5 of us take the flop, including the big blind, 2 early, and one > middle position player. Flop is: > > A 9 4 > > I don't remember suits, but it was rainbow. It was checked all the way to me, > and I check along. The turn is a king that puts a flush draw on the board. > It's checked to the middle position player, the player right before me, and he > bets. What would you do? > > Lee | ||
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| Re: How would you play this?, Schuster, 27. Jul 2003 11:26 | ||
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| Unfortunately I was new to the table and didn't have a read on this opponent. He took a while to bet the hand when the action came to him, and I had a feeling he had a king, so I raised the bet. One of the EP players called and he called. The river was a blank and we all checked it down. Turns out he had a weak ace. Moral of the story is don't play in situations like this unless you know your opponent, it seems. Thanks for the posts everyone! Lee | ||
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| Re: How would you play this?, 4 POKER, 27. Jul 2003 14:50 | ||
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| That really depends on how well you actually know that opponent who lead out on the turn, and what are also some of the possible reactions to the other players in the game as well. If you don't have a read on this opponent, (or the others involved as well), then you'll have to make your best decision on to what you think that player is actually holding and/or drawing to. It's not a simple answer, because the question is one that will truly depend on the entire situation. That being said, Many times players will limp in with Ace/rag and will not bet the flop because they're either trying to get somebody else to bet it for them so they can just call and not have to call a raise if they *do* decide to bet the flop, and many times, there just not sure if their Ace is good enough due to weak kicker problems.....but they *will* bet the turn card if it's now checked around, so you may have been up against a weak Ace on the flop.....but you also could have been up against a player who turned a pair of kings with a smaller kicker than yours....and you also could have been up against a set of 4's right on the flop. There's definitely hands out there that could beat you, and there's hands that could be just drawing hands and maybe that's the hand that the person who bet on the turn with had....a drawing hand. Or, it could have been just a bluff because noone had showed any interest on the flop, *or* the turn, being that it was checked around to him who sat in a fairly late postion. (only you were left to act). Now because you're not sure of your own holding at this point....I think that calling would be the last thing that I would do.If you do just call, you'd be allowing your opponents to call for one bet and may now draw out on you on the river, and your own holding is too vulnerable to handle more than one opponent. I would probably raise it in this spot, or I would fold all together. If he has just a weak Ace, he probably won't raise you back, and by raising it here, you might just knock out the rest of the field, which is what you want if you're going to continue with hand at all. This way you get to see the river card for free if he's a weak player and sitting on a weak Ace, and if you happen to catch two pair or the third King.....if he now checks it to you, you can bet, but if he bets into you again on the river....you're probably going to have to let it go. If he checks, and you don't improve...check it behind him because if he has an Ace, he's not folding. The raise you may have made on the turn that knocked everyone else out was a good thing for your own hand....but keep in mind, if you get called by the initial bettor and he does hold an Ace, don't waste any more money on the river as to try and get him to fold off a weak Ace. If you're going to raise the turn, and you're now heads up....if you can take the free card on the river, take it. It adds up to be the same amount if he bet the turn and you called...and he now bet the river, and you called....but you leave yourself in a little bit better situation now (by raising the turn), because you only have to contend with one other player. So if you're comfortable with that play, and you really think your King is good, than raise it....don't just call. But if you're not sure if someone holds an Ace, then just let it go and wait for a flop that hits you stronger. But all too often, players will play a weak Ace and will not bet it until the turn comes and noone has shown any sign of aggression, so just be aware of that.....it can save you money when you *do* turn the second best pair. But if I have no read on my opponent/s up to this point in the game, I'll just let it go all together. So all in all, IMO.....either pump it or dump it.....depending on what you *do* know about the players involved. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: How would you play this?, shorn, 28. Jul 2003 05:41 | ||
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| Given that this was LL on Party, I would fold without even thinking. With 5 people seeing the flop, there is no way 2nd pair is good more than 5% of the time because most people play every Ace (as it happened in this example). So, I fold overcards to a large field online without hesitation. There is just too good a chance that your hand is beaten. | ||
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| Re: How would you play this?, beigs, 28. Jul 2003 07:53 | ||
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| This is definitely true but I have found the LL players on Party will bet out with top pair without understanding what a 'kicker' is. With 5 people seeing the flop, there's a lot out there but with it checking around, it has generally meant that people were afraid of the ace. So when the King comes, and the guy next to you bets, I'd call. But warily. I've found that a majority of the time he's got a King. Those that call after you are probably drawing. If the flush card comes out you're beat. I guess it all depends on the player. I don't know if this is the right way to play it. i've become more and more jaded about how my hands will hold up. I'm starting to be of the opinion that, in low limit games, unless you have a really solid hand, even betting for value gets you in more trouble than it's probably worth. But don't listen to me. I had a bad weekend. beigs on 28. Jul 2003 05:41 shorn wrote: > Given that this was LL on Party, I would fold without even thinking. With 5 people > seeing the flop, there is no way 2nd pair is good more than 5% of the time because > most people play every Ace (as it happened in this example). So, I fold overcards to > a large field online without hesitation. There is just too good a chance that your > hand is beaten. | ||
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| Re: How would you play this?, Jav, 28. Jul 2003 13:19 | ||
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| "But don't listen to me. I had a bad weekend. " I understand that feeling all too well. You play well for several weeks, and just feel like things are going your way. You play solid tight aggressive poker, and things just work. Then all of a sudden you start losing. While it is correct to evaluate your play and see if you are making mistakes, don't let a losing streak by itself get you down. If the better player always won, eventually there would be noone to play with! Good luck! | ||
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