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Server Time: 12/1/2008 7:53:08 PM PACIFIC |
 Chip Leaders "pushing people around", mkpoker, 25. Jul 2003 09:41 | ||
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| I've probably ready a dozen or so posts that say the advantage of being chip leader in a NL tourney is that you can "push people around." What does this mean and how do you do it? I understand that as CL, you can take a few more chances, because if they don't pay off, you're still in fine shape. But this isn't "bullying" as described on the board. When I've been CL, I tend to tighten up a bit and let the short stacks fight among themselves. I suspect that's the exact opposite of what I *should* be doing. However, my theory is that if the small stacks eliminate each other, I'm almost assured of finishing in the money. Then, when it gets to 3-handed or so, I'll still be CL (or close) and can shift gears again. Thoughts? | ||
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| Re: Chip Leaders "pushing people around", Hatchthunder, 25. Jul 2003 09:59 | ||
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| You can push people around as chip leader by raising preflop and stealing the blinds. Say as chip leader you have 10,000 in chips and the two players in the binds have 2,500 and 3,000 respectively. If you raise preflop 1,000 then for them to defend thier blinds they have to put in half their chips or go all in. If they come back at you then all you have lost is 1,000 no big deal. But if they lost the pot it is disatrous for them. | ||
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| Re: Chip Leaders "pushing people around", Jav, 25. Jul 2003 10:58 | ||
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| But losing 1000 chips is a big deal. In that instance, you went from 10,000 to 9,000; and the other player may have went from 3000 to 4000. Now if you get a good hand and he goes all in with you just once (and wins for whatever reason), he'll be at 8000 and you'll be at 5000. To me, that is a big deal. | ||
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| Re: Chip Leaders "pushing people around", Big_Slick, 25. Jul 2003 10:04 | ||
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| You push people around by making players fold hands they might ordinarily play. Say you are UNG with $40,000 in chips. There are 2 limpers in front of you for $200. Everyone at the table has around $10,000 in chips. You raise $2,000 with a marginal hand... say K-Q. You are making players fold or risk putting up 1/5th of their chips before even seeing a flop. Meanwhile, you are only putting up 5% of your chips. The same type of bullying can occur after the flop where you can steal a lot of pots with nothing. | ||
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| Re: Chip Leaders "pushing people around", Dr_Monkey, 25. Jul 2003 10:18 | ||
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| I was in a $5 NL SNG last night. About 5-6 people left with one huge chip leader. He had 3000 to 4000 in chips. His method of pushing people around was to call every hand. The after the flop he would bet the pot or more. It was pretty effective. Very few people got into hands because they knew what he would do. Generally, only the blinds saw hands, but folded after the flop. I think a more effective method would be to raise almost every hand, either 2x BB or 3x BB. That would fold even the BB. I got into some hands and flopped a pair and came out betting. He folded because he was playing garbage. If he raised any amount, I wouldn't have seen those flops. Even when he did get a caller after the flop bet, they usually folded the turn because he bet large again. | ||
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| Re: Chip Leaders "pushing people around", MozMan, 25. Jul 2003 10:21 | ||
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| Hey mk- Take a look at Slate's post, above yours. That's a really good example of bullying... -Moz "May your chips never fall from a cow." | ||
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| Re: Chip Leaders "pushing people around", shorn, 25. Jul 2003 10:56 | ||
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| I think this applies more to a longer tourny than a SNG (although Dr. Monkey does point out that it can work in that arena as well). Basically, if you get a large stack, you can force other off of marginal hands much easier without risking going broke in the tournament. So, the idea is to punish the average abd slightly less than average stacks at EVERY opportunity. You should most likely not try to push marginal edges with very small stacks or other large stacks because the former is desperate and will go all-in with a bigger frequency and the latter can hurt you back by coming over the top. Bullying is best done agains stacks around average. Now, that is not to say you shouldn't steal against small stacks when you have the chance to knock them out with a decent hand. However, making a large raise with a mediocre hand (say JTo) should be done against the average folks. | ||
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| Re: Chip Leaders "pushing people around", SmellsLikeVictory, 25. Jul 2003 11:01 | ||
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| As most have already suggested, the chip leader can do a lot of blind stealing and stealing on the flop since smaller stacks can easily be put all-in by the leader. He risks a small portion of his stack vs all the opposing player's chips. The most effective time for this is bubble time. Say there's 11 players left and only 10 to the final table pay. As CL you would be raising just about every time it's folded to you and betting at every flop when called. The other stacks are usually so desparate to stay alive that they'll fold much better hands just to avoid a confrontation that could knock them out on the bubble. So profitable is this bubble period for the leaders, that you really don't want to see that final player eliminated to get into the money if you're a CL. You want to delay that stage of the game as much as possible so you can continue stealing and being table captain in this very enviable position. Another bully tactic is simply calling small stack's despartion all-in bets with slighty inferior hands just to get a crack at busting them. So they'll take the worst end of 60/40% matchup if it means busting out the other player. If they get lucky, they move up the money ladder and get even more chips. If they lose, well it was only a small % of their stack, so no big deal. Often the CL acts as a chip vacuum, sucking up all the smaller stacks that desparately need to double up. | ||
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| Re: Chip Leaders "pushing people around", spk, 25. Jul 2003 13:43 | ||
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| Chip leaders have gained the right to push the people around... | ||
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| Re: Chip Leaders "pushing people around", MozMan, 25. Jul 2003 15:10 | ||
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| Sometimes the simple answer is the best; very well put, spk. -Moz "May your chips never fall from a cow." | ||
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| Re: Chip Leaders "pushing people around", stdioh, 25. Jul 2003 14:35 | ||
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| You can afford to flip a coin and lose. Your opponents cannot afford this. Thus you can make big moves. For instance if the BB is T100 and a small stack limps and another small stack limps and now it is to you and you look down and see AKo, look at your stack and see T10,000, look at their stacks and see T1000 and T700, you can just shove all in. You can afford one of them to call you with 77 and have a coin flip, but one of them can't afford to coin flip at this point. They aren't totally desperate to play all their chips yet and take that coin flip, so they'll fold their limping hands and you'll steal their limps. Of course you're hoping that one of them gets clever and decides that you've been throwing your weight around too much and calls you with AQ. That's where you make your money being a bully. Just be careful if you see the wrong person limping at you and be able to smell pocket aces. | ||
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| Re: Chip Leaders "pushing people around", gary ford, 25. Jul 2003 16:18 | ||
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| studioh---How do you "smell " pocket aces--an all in play by a mouse? Gary | ||
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| Re: Chip Leaders "pushing people around", Big_Slick, 25. Jul 2003 16:22 | ||
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| I have an Uncle who can smell aces... literally. Give him a shuffled pack of cards and he will sniff each one and pick out the 4 aces. It's a neat trick. Wish I knew how he did it. | ||
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| Re: Chip Leaders "pushing people around", stdioh, 29. Jul 2003 12:27 | ||
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| Perhaps he daubs the cards? I don't want to know what with though. | ||
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