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Server Time: 2/13/2012 12:09:08 AM PACIFIC |
 WSOP Day 3 - Lederer vs. Moneymaker, trwebb26, 25. Jul 2003 06:01 | ||
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| Moneymaker's AA vs. Lederer's AK Moneymaker Raises Lederer Re-Raisses Moneymaker call. Would you have just smooth called the re-raise. I think I would have gone all in here. You know you've got the best hand in a raised pot... why give him a chance to catch? If he has a pocket pair and flops a set you are in for some real trouble. I only bring this one up because the announcer was saying how Moneymaker played it so great by keeping Lederer in the pot and getting some more money from him. I think it was a very dangerous thing to do. Thoughts??? | ||
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| Re: WSOP Day 3 - Lederer vs. Moneymaker, Slate, 25. Jul 2003 06:59 | ||
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| Thats a tought one, I have seen AA cracked so many times and for all Moneymaker knows Lederer could have KK and one K on the flop and its all over. But then again by calling he could see the flop and get out if things look bad, the chance that Lederer would fold if he went all in might not be a chance worth taking. But odds are in his favor if he did. | ||
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| Re: WSOP Day 3 - Lederer vs. Moneymaker, stdioh, 25. Jul 2003 14:43 | ||
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| That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If Howard has KK that is a great thing for moneymaker as it is one of the worst hands Howard could have. Saying "One K on the flop and its all over" is nonsense. He could have 23o and a 2 and a 3 on the flop and its all over. In heads up showdown poker, live undercards have a slightly better chance of beating AA than an underpair. | ||
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| Re: WSOP Day 3 - Lederer vs. Moneymaker, noiseboy, 25. Jul 2003 08:53 | ||
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| I think it's the right play because I don't want to use all-in moves in the WSOP unless I'm forced to, later in the tournament when I'm short stacked and have few options. It seems dangerous to smooth call, because you know you have the best of it before the flop; however, AA's do get cracked like you said, so in some respects the slow play can be safer. Moneymaker allows himself the possibility of making more money if the flop comes favorable to his AA's, but if the flop comes down really bad for AA's, let's say three suited and connected cards of which you don't have the suit, he can still get away from the hand if Lederer comes over the top of him. Basically, he's just leaving some options open. It could backfire, of course, but he really doesn't want to go broke on Day 3, even with AA's. | ||
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| Re: WSOP Day 3 - Lederer vs. Moneymaker, stdioh, 25. Jul 2003 14:44 | ||
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| Bollocks. Moneymaker isn't worried that his aces will obviously be cracked. He wants to milk Howard by using deception and getting more play out of his aces. He figures that he won't get called all in now, but if howard hits top pair, top kicker, he'll get paid off more. | ||
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| Re: WSOP Day 3 - Lederer vs. Moneymaker, noiseboy, 25. Jul 2003 15:51 | ||
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| Maybe I misspoke. I don't believe Moneymaker was "afraid" of anything. He was sitting on the best hand and he wanted to extract the biggest pot possible. If he believed that Howard would have called an all-in bet, before the flop, I'm sure he would of made one as he knows he is a huge favorite. However, I was just pointing out that the way Money slowplayed with the hand has the added benefit that if the flop comes down really bad, he can get away from his AA's, although it would be really hard, it could be done. Anyway, I thought the way Moneymaker induced Lederer's bluff showed that he is a good player, or at least he played that hand extremely well. | ||
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| Re: WSOP Day 3 - Lederer vs. Moneymaker, stdioh, 29. Jul 2003 12:28 | ||
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| ok fair enough. | ||
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| Re: WSOP Day 3 - Lederer vs. Moneymaker, stdioh, 25. Jul 2003 14:41 | ||
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| That's a good play to call there. When you're against a really bad opponent you shove in and he calls with his AK. Howard is no slouch and he would have mucked to an all-in. By just calling Moneymaker is letting Howard say, "He's got a premium hand, but it isn't AA. So now if he catches an ace, he'll think he's good and if he catches a king he'll think he's got a shot. I would guess that Moneymaker put him on KK or QQ and wanted him to play if a junky flop hit. I think it is a reasonable gamble since if Howard has AK and hits a K or has KK and flops rags, he'll put Moneymaker on a premium hand and will not assume him for 2 pair. In this way Moneymaker can get all of him money in on the flop when he is almost certain to have Howard beat - unless the flop is just wretched like a flop of KKQ or 9TJ suited in one of the other suits. So yeah, I think that was a great move and something that you can do against a competent opponent. | ||
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| Re: WSOP Day 3 - Lederer vs. Moneymaker, Roy Cooke, 25. Jul 2003 14:43 | ||
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| I agree with this and think it is very well stated! Roy Cooke on 25. Jul 2003 14:41 stdioh wrote: > That's a good play to call there. When you're against a really bad opponent you shove > in and he calls with his AK. Howard is no slouch and he would have mucked to an > all-in. By just calling Moneymaker is letting Howard say, "He's got a premium hand, > but it isn't AA. So now if he catches an ace, he'll think he's good and if he catches > a king he'll think he's got a shot. I would guess that Moneymaker put him on KK or QQ > and wanted him to play if a junky flop hit. I think it is a reasonable gamble since > if Howard has AK and hits a K or has KK and flops rags, he'll put Moneymaker on a > premium hand and will not assume him for 2 pair. In this way Moneymaker can get all > of him money in on the flop when he is almost certain to have Howard beat - unless > the flop is just wretched like a flop of KKQ or 9TJ suited in one of the other > suits. > > So yeah, I think that was a great move and something that you can do against a > competent opponent. | ||
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