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Server Time: 2/13/2012 2:34:01 AM PACIFIC |
 Playing Top Pair with Top Kicker in NL tourney, mroban, 24. Jul 2003 13:02 | ||
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| This hand seems to be the hardest decision to play. Here is a hypothetical: Early in the tournament, UB style, T1000, you are in late position blinds are either 10-20 or 15-30. You have AT on the button and 4 players have limped in. You limp as well, the SB calls and the BB checks. The flop comes T-8-5 rainbow. SB checks, BB checks, 3rd player is an excellent player (lets say you know this) who raises 3x blinds. 4th and 5th players fold. Bet is to you. My instinct here is either to fold. The raiser could easily have limped with 88 or 55, or with something like T8 suited. Of course, with a raggy flop, he might just be trying to buy the pot. The only other play is to reraise. If he calls, what then? Is it correct to just fold this hand early in the tournament and not have to make this decision? He also might be on a semi-bluff with a hand like J9 suited in which case he has many outs to beat me if I just call. thoughts? | ||
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| Re: Playing Top Pair with Top Kicker in NL tourney, tpir90036, 24. Jul 2003 13:15 | ||
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| just go with your first instinct. if you think he could have limped with something legit than just fold, the pot isn't that big and you have only committed one BB limp bet to it. you did fold, right? however, if it's later in the tournament and you think that the chance that he is stealing combined with the chance that you have the best hand anyway is significantly high....your best play might be an all-in re-steal (taking into account stack sizes, blinds, etc.). if he really is a good player and was just trying to steal he will back down. the more troublesome part is when a random goof tries to steal because he could have anything from 72o to TT and might even call you and make it a coin toss for in vs. out. it's hard to read people on-line but if you are observant as to what people are playing when you do get to see their cards you should be to put them on at least *something*. good luck! | ||
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| Re: Playing Top Pair with Top Kicker in NL tourney, mroban, 24. Jul 2003 18:39 | ||
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| thanks tpir. Yes, I folded this hand and of course have no idea what my opponent was holding, and felt that was the correct play. I had a similar situation where late in the tournament I went all in and got burned by it (was actually up against 2 pair). I think your analysis is right. | ||
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| Re: Playing Top Pair with Top Kicker in NL tourney, shorn, 25. Jul 2003 05:59 | ||
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| This early in the tournament, I think this is a clear fold, especially if you know the player is an exceleent one. Your hand stinks and he easily could have limped with JJ or TT or 88 or something else. Yes, is it possible (if even likely) that he sees a ragged flop and is trying to steal it? Sure. But, at best I think you are ahead by a coin flip here, something I regard as not good enough to risk anymore chips. Also, with that many limpers before you, I probably would have mucked ATo pre-flop because it is pretty much garbage that you need to hit twice on the flop in order to avoid the situation you are describing. | ||
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| Re: Playing Top Pair with Top Kicker in NL tourney, tpir90036, 25. Jul 2003 08:19 | ||
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| this raises a question that i have been going over in my head for a while. say you are in a NLHE ring game with people who play way too many hands. if you are in MP in an unraised pot, is limping with ATo, KTo considered a totally idiot move? i am smart enough to not get trapped by these hands, but it seems that if everyone else is limping in with hands *worse* than these, i should at least try to see the flop for cheap and out play them later. does this sound right?? | ||
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| Re: Playing Top Pair with Top Kicker in NL tourney, shorn, 25. Jul 2003 08:31 | ||
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| In a ring game, assuming that it was that passive, I would limp to see a flop once in a while. But, as you say, you must be desciplined to get away from them if the flop doesn't hit you hard. The mere fact that others are limping with worse cards than these makes them even more vulnerable to hitting top pair and losing to a freak str8 or two random pair. Plus, your kicker is really weak and someone behind you with AK or KQ (with the KT example) might also just limp and have you totally dominated. Both of these hands need to hit you twice on the flop to continue IMO or they can suck you dry. | ||
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