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Server Time: 11/21/2008 10:25:59 PM PACIFIC |
 Why did Jonny Fold? i.e. What did Howard have?, Asher, 22. Jul 2003 21:21 | ||
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| I am referring to the hand where Howard's cards were obscured and the flop came 2c3c4c. To say the least, I was a little surprised that Jonny Chan threw his hand away after Howard led at that pot. My read was that Howard had flopped a set. I came to that conclusion based on the preflop action. Howard was in the SB, and I am certain that he would have tried to shut everyone out of the pot before the flop with a large pocket pair. So I don't think Jonny was up against a hand like AcAd. I also don't really see Howard getting involved with a hand like KcJh in that situation especially after a preflop raise. I don't even think he'd be in there with AcQh. Big slick? Well, again, I think he would have tried to define his hand more preflop with something big like that, so, No, I rule that out completely also. That leaves us with small pocket pairs and drawing hands like JcTc. Now if I had flopped an intermediate flush in that situation, I'd look to check-raise the flop and trap someone betting an overpair + flush draw hand. I definitely would not lead at it and chase people out. So I don't think he had a flush. More likely a set - like 4's. Howard led out 17k (a little more than the pot I think) in an attempt to dissuade people from drawing at his made hand. Jonny Chan's hand against a set of 4's: 1.03:1 Against AcKd: 0.62:1 Against overpair + flush draw: from 1.8:1 to 3.7:1 How do you play Jonny's hand here? | ||
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| Re: Why did Jonny Fold? i.e. What did Howard have?, Big Frank, 23. Jul 2003 06:29 | ||
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| on 22. Jul 2003 21:21 Asher wrote: > I am referring to the hand where Howard's cards were obscured and the flop came > 2c3c4c. To say the least, I was a little surprised that Jonny Chan threw his > hand away after Howard led at that pot. My read was that Howard had flopped a > set. I came to that conclusion based on the preflop action. > > Howard was in the SB, and I am certain that he would have tried to shut > everyone out of the pot before the flop with a large pocket pair. So I don't > think Jonny was up against a hand like AcAd. > > I also don't really see Howard getting involved with a hand like KcJh in that > situation especially after a preflop raise. I don't even think he'd be in there > with AcQh. Big slick? Well, again, I think he would have tried to define his > hand more preflop with something big like that, so, No, I rule that out > completely also. > > That leaves us with small pocket pairs and drawing hands like JcTc. Now if I > had flopped an intermediate flush in that situation, I'd look to check-raise the > flop and trap someone betting an overpair + flush draw hand. I definitely would > not lead at it and chase people out. So I don't think he had a flush. More > likely a set - like 4's. > > Howard led out 17k (a little more than the pot I think) in an attempt to > dissuade people from drawing at his made hand. > > Jonny Chan's hand against a set of 4's: 1.03:1 > Against AcKd: 0.62:1 > Against overpair + flush draw: from 1.8:1 to 3.7:1 > > How do you play Jonny's hand here? With 3 others in before him, and not wanting to risk soneome sucking out on him, he called from the SB if I'm not mistaken. My feeling is that he had AKc or AXc and called a multiway pot in the hopes of flopping the nut flush or the nut flush draw which he did. He must have known that at least 1 or 2 of his opponents were on a pair (small or otherwise) and he wanted to drive them off the hand before they had a chance to fill up. Agressive play. If I'm jonny here, I have a weak flush draw, a very slight over pair, and a SF draw. I would have to think that Howard has the Ac and I muck as I recall Jonny had about 40K and a 17K call with 55 isn't the best spot to risk about half your chips. | ||
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| Re: Why did Jonny Fold? i.e. What did Howard have?, SKinner, 23. Jul 2003 11:38 | ||
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| Again, I'm kind of new. I seem to recall (and was baffled by) seeing Howard lay down monster hands pre-flop. I know I saw him lay down AQs to what I thought was a minimal bet, and I feel like I saw him lay down some others that were pretty good starting hands. First, why would he do this? Second, given that he is willing to lay those hands down, how in the world do you think he would be the 4th to enter a pot unless he had Rockets, one of which being a club? Anyway, that's my guess. Also, if the brains here wouldn't mind, could you please help me to understand Howard's (can't remember last name) thinking as he is laying down AQs pre-flop. Was the raise larger than I remember? Thanks, SKinner | ||
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| Re: Why did Jonny Fold? i.e. What did Howard have?, spk, 23. Jul 2003 14:12 | ||
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| odds are chan is not going to fill his straight flush, he my fill a flush but it would be an extremely low flush, I thought he made the right move... | ||
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