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Server Time: 11/22/2008 12:50:14 AM PACIFIC |
 I'm not saying it is rigged...but..., foraces, 22. Jul 2003 14:33 | ||
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| Very strange thing happened over the last few days: I definately don't think I'm a great player or anything, but I can usually book a small win or at least break fairly even That said.. I have been playing .10/.25 NL Holdem on Pokerstars. I know the caliber of most players there so I don't expect my premium hands to hold up without improvement. But the other day after watching quite a few miracle runner runners in hand that I wasn't involved in that just didn't seem right, I had two absolutly ridiculous bad beats that I requested the hand histories on and e-mailed Pokerstars to ask if this was typical of their site. I did this in two different emails a few hours apart(immediately after each beat). Well each time Pokerstars assured me that it was part of the game and that they had the best 'shuffelling' algorithm in the industry and etc. Then today I logged in and decided to play 3 NL tables at once with the last $70 in my account and if my balance dropped to $0 I would not play PS for a while (I admit this was a bit of tilt but I intended to still play my usual style not intentionally blow off all my chips). In about an hour and a half, I ran $70 up to $260!!! And I certainally wasn't playing my best game at all three tables. I usually never play more than 1 at a time. Now I did get some good cards and I only played good starting hands from correct positions, but my hands just seemed to hold up. It was very strange. It made me wonder | ||
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| Re: I'm not saying it is rigged...but..., Big_Slick, 22. Jul 2003 15:24 | ||
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| Now players are complaining when they are winning? I guess that is strange for some people. | ||
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| Re: I'm not saying it is rigged...but..., LJH, 22. Jul 2003 15:53 | ||
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| FORACES HOW LONG WILL PEOPLE LIKE YOU KEEP CLAIMING SOMETHINGIS ROTTEN IN THE GAME OF POKER? DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT PROBABILITY LAW. WHY NOT JUST PLAY RUMMY. LJH | ||
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| Re: I'm not saying it is rigged...but..., stdioh, 22. Jul 2003 16:25 | ||
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| Ow, my ears. | ||
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| Re: I'm not saying it is rigged...but..., LJH, 22. Jul 2003 16:40 | ||
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| WELL DOESN'T HE DESERVE IT!!! LJH | ||
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| Re: I'm not saying it is rigged...but..., stdioh, 22. Jul 2003 16:48 | ||
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| Ow. Stop shouting. | ||
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| Re: I'm not saying it is rigged...but..., Jav, 22. Jul 2003 16:55 | ||
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| He might but your post just *might* be read by other people. I think it's common knowledge that typing in all caps is rude, so don't be surprised when people react to it. | ||
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| Re: I'm not saying it is rigged...but..., LJH, 22. Jul 2003 18:58 | ||
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| JAY, I LOVE TO SHOUT WHEN IT COMES TO POKER. BESIDES AT MY AGE I CANNOT READ THE SMALL PRINT<G> LJH | ||
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| Re: I'm not saying it is rigged...but..., 4 POKER, 22. Jul 2003 19:11 | ||
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| Priceless! | ||
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| Re: I'm not saying it is rigged...but..., stdioh, 22. Jul 2003 16:30 | ||
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| It is just variance. Lets use logic to sort this out. 1) Assume that they are able to cheat without the public becomming aware - say they locked up all their software developers when it was over. 2) Assume that they regularly cheat and make sure that "house" players always win and the poor slobs who buy in always lose. 3) Why the damn hell would they cheat at $0.10-$0.25?!?!?!? It makes no sense. Wouldn't they let that game be honest so that the good players there would be able to build up a bankroll and move up in limits and *then* be cheated? It is true that these internet cardrooms are all based in the third world in countries where cheating at cards is not against the law and I know of one internet casino from a few years ago that *was* cheating in its online blackjack, slots, etc (a friend of mine was on their software development team), but those sites made money directly from the people playing the games there. Poker sites make money by raking the pots and can get by honestly like that. They are interested in having a lot of players on the sites so that they can take a lot in rake - and they make out very very well in rakes. There is no reason to steal. And if they were to steal anyway for the additional money, they definitely wouldn't steal small. They would steal from the guys who are playing 200-400 heads up and from the guys who are playing in $200 buy in tourneys. They are quite happy to take a dollar out of the pot and move on at the lower limits. | ||
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| Re: I'm not saying it is rigged...but..., Mojo702, 22. Jul 2003 18:05 | ||
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| People that complain about online poker sites/games being rigged must be out of their mind. Those that own one of these sites don't need to cheat with stacked decks or whatever you want to call it! They're practically printing money!!! Why need to cheat? Do you know how many hands are being played? And if they only raked $1/pot, ...Christ...the money rolling in..... | ||
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| Re: I'm not saying it is rigged...but..., LJH, 22. Jul 2003 19:00 | ||
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| MOJO702, YOU ARE SO RIGHT. I LIKE A THINKING MAN WHO KNOWS BUSINESS. LJH | ||
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| Re: I'm not saying it is rigged...but..., jdsalinger, 22. Jul 2003 23:04 | ||
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| I'm not saying it's rigged nor do I really care as I've made good money at all the sites. But the "action flops" and starting hands that are dealt to induce more betting get me to wonder. Just today at NL Iive games I've had KK vs. AA twice. Well you're just going to loose lots of money when this happens. I've also run into a hand where five people called all in and they had AA,kk,qq,jj,1010 respectively. That's a bit too weird for me. And tonight I had AA vs JJ, vs. 10's, and 88's. Two people flopped a set, the 3rd had an overpair and open ended. Luckily I was all in and my A came on the river so I can't complain, but I'm wondering how can all these flops hit so many people. | ||
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| Re: I'm not saying it is rigged...but..., Kurt Abele, 23. Jul 2003 09:35 | ||
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| Here is my $0.02.... I have also been thinking about sites being rigged - I had a rotten last several days where I almost never a decent hand and if I got one, I either ended up with a split pot or lost due to a lucky river card so I wondered. But I thought about it for a bit and I think one of the reasons we see so many weird hands like that is that online I think we are seeing many more hands per hour then we would see at a home game or in a casino. And I remember the line in Rounders that went something like this..."Most poker players rarely remember the wins that helped make their stack - but every one remembers their bad beats" So, I think that we are seeing the odds play out in front of us....unfortunally sometimes we are at the short end of the stick.... | ||
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| Re: I'm not saying it is rigged...but..., TKarrde, 23. Jul 2003 12:13 | ||
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| Yes. Collusion happens. And probably more than you think. Most guys often have friends that play online too. I have 4 friends that play on UB. You all probably have friends that play online together too. How hard is it for two of those guys to think "if we work together we have a better chance"? It is very easy to do. I have done it. It is like trying a cigarette when you are a kid. You know it is wrong. But you try in anyway for the experience. My experience was that for casual collusion it wasn't very effective. Both of us played our regular A game so we weren't in many hands together. When we were, knowing each others cards was rarely useful. Only time it was useful was when you knew you had the nuts and wanted everyone to pay to play. You could cap the betting. That might have worked once or twice. Gave up on it as it was a pain and wasn't fun. So it is happening. Don't fool yourself. But I don't think that it is that powerful, prevailant, or practical. TKarrde "The next best thing to playing and winning, is playing and losing." | ||
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| Re: I'm not saying it is rigged...but..., Mike812, 23. Jul 2003 12:33 | ||
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| I am not saying that it does or does not happen. That is one example of the many different forms of cheating. My whole argument lies in the fact that that the sites do nothing to prevent such occurences from happening. It may seem impossible to prevent, but at one time it seemed impossible in Vegas too. We are all out to have a good time, but as long as there is money involved there will be people trying to swindle that money. Its just frustrating that there is nothing happening to prevent this from happening whether it be through hacking, collusion, etc. And collusion does occur. If it wasnt profitable then why does it exist and why do people do it? It might have not worked for you, but I guarantee that people have developed strategies and techniques to maximize their profits. There is no difference with us. We develops strategies to play poker. Remember the first time you ever played poker. Prob didnt know what the hell you were doing compared to now. That same logic applies to cheaters. As they do it more, they become better at it. Your "brief" experience can not speak for the whole cheating community as a whole. The same way people in real life cheat, it takes practice etc. This also applies to online cheaters. Instead of denying that it exists, we should be very aware that it occurs. Online is the #1 for scams and this is no different. If something seems fishy, or hits a red flag. Get up and switch rooms. I think that ignoring the problem is what is going to make it worse. Ignoring it and believing it does not happen will cause the sites to do absolutely nothing about it, when in fact they should be doing something about it. | ||
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| Re: I'm not saying it is rigged...but..., 4 POKER, 23. Jul 2003 12:35 | ||
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| Hey TK, I know you just brought that up to make a point and that you just wanted to "try" it just to see......but your honesty about it IMO, is commendable to say the very least. Thank you for that. | ||
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