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Server Time: 11/21/2008 10:43:24 PM PACIFIC |
 Sit n go's... heads up question, palman, 21. Jul 2003 19:26 | ||
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| Here's the situation..... You've got the chiplead... 7000 to 1000. You're the BB, and he's the SB. Blinds 250/500 He proceeds to raise all in with his 1000(750+ his SB of 250), leaving 500 more for you to call. Heads up and short stacked... the odds of him having a GREAT hand aren't that high, of course there's always the chance he may. So you've got 500 to call to win 1500, and the tournament. With purely an odds look at the bet..... there are VERY few hands he can have which would make you enough of an underdog to warrant not calling his bet. So hands like 98 I've always assumed are call hands. Am I wrong? How bad would the hand have to be to NOT call the bet? 2-7 2-8? Suppose instead of him having 1,000 chips.. he has 1250-1500 chips total. Do you just sit and wait for you to have a hand... realizing you can let him take a few blinds and one all in with a solid hand of yours will still put him away? The worst feeling would be letting someone with 1,000 chips just blind steal up to 2,000 or 2,500. However at the same time, I find me telling myself "I have the pot odds to call" and I call with crap, double him up, and all the sudden I'm 2nd. I know this is an extensively complicated part of poker (headsup, especially with high blinds) and likely every player on the forum plays heads up differently. The only type of heads up play that always loses is the especially passive player that lefts you steal the blinds too often. Anyone have any thoughts on the above situation? | ||
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| Re: Sit n go's... heads up question, pt_Gatsby, 21. Jul 2003 21:32 | ||
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| Disclaimer: Again, this is theory and my recent expierence (I focused a lot on heads up because I was doing so lousy in it)... Strictly speaking, these are the hands I would never play in a heads up situation (again, from my number crunching under work at http://www.geocities.com/pt_gatsby , which is a heads up only table right now). Q4o and lower J7o and lower 108o and lower 98 o/s and lower (and other lower non-pairs). Those cards all have negative ROIC, essentially (their win rate against random hands is lower than 50%). For suited cards, you can roughly subtract 1.x from the lower card (ie: 107s, j5s). Its important to note that in heads up, there is no such thing as 'pot odds', only your direct chance of winning. As for stealing: largely irrelevant. What you do is change the basic strategy on how you deal with decent hands. If he pumps up the bet on any of your good hands, just raise him up to elimination point (as chip leader). Psychologically speaking, you are engaging in punishing his behavior. Normally, if you are chip leader, I find making a name for yourself as a bully before going heads up works wonders... but you can't always do that. You just have to match his style. The whole concept of being the opposite just doesn't work (passive vs aggressive with high blinds is very dangerous...), though bullying passive players is. You just have to ask if you are being too passive, I think. That invites certain behavior that puts you at a huge disadvantage. I know I was being very passive (constantly checking, calling...). Someone mentioned how heads up was a fold or raise game... I wouldn't go that far, but it has enough truth. Either throw him off his game, or play your own. In heads up, the way I think about the hands I mentioned above.. they all lose more than 22 does. Or, another way I look at the hands... 77 is roughly the same as AKs. IOWs, the hand value are completely different in relative value with only two people in the game! You don't play connectors, you play their face value... much like the flush is a bonus, so is the connecter aspect now (A10o better than KQs). It can be frustrating when you get a string of bad hands, especially with big blinds. You may have to play the best you get for those bad runs... Just be very aggressive (realise that its basicly an all-in situation, if you are short stacked. If he doesn't back down, you'll probably be about to be blinded out...). Going half measures will just get your stack cut in half, I find. Ah well... that's my thoughts. Its working ok for me so far, but nothing incredible. | ||
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| Re: Sit n go's... heads up question, Mark, 22. Jul 2003 00:26 | ||
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| There was a discussion here a loonnngggg time ago, i believe it was between Jim Brier, another pro, and the rest of us. The pros were advocating call in the BB (getting 3 to 1 on an all in player) with J2o. The hand is something like a 1:1 or 2:1 dog against all possible hands. Also, you are not just getting 3:1 odds, you are getting the difference between 1st and 2nd place on your call. As the opponents stack size increases, your calling hands must become much better. I also consider very strongly what effect a double up for my opponent would have on our stack ratios mark | ||
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| Re: Sit n go's... heads up question, Schuster, 22. Jul 2003 01:12 | ||
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| 3-2 offsuit is the worst hand to play heads up in an all in situation, and it's about 30% against a random hand. Since you're getting 3 to 1 on the call, I would make it here. He has to go all in with just about anything. | ||
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| Re: Sit n go's... heads up question, stdioh, 22. Jul 2003 10:03 | ||
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| I'd say that you can call him if you have a king or ace in your hand, if you have 2 cards over or equal to 9, if you have suited cards including a queen, or if you have connectors over or equal to 78. There isn't much you can throw away here, but you don't want to let him double through you if you have a *total* pig. I think 89 would be marginally ok as would 78. I think Q2s is a marginal call. I think K2o is a marginal call. I think 9Jo is a marginal call. | ||
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| Re: Sit n go's... heads up question, Dr_Monkey, 23. Jul 2003 08:30 | ||
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| I think it depends on what type of player the other guy is. Did you get to be chip leader by stealing pots? Is the other guy very passive? If you have been stealing pots, you have to figure the other guys finally has a strong hand or why else would he be playing. He wants you to play because he thinks he will beat you. Give up the pot, it's only 500, which he has to post the next hand. Then you raise him 500-1500. If you were stealing all along, he should fold. I played a recent sit and go and was down to the final 2. We both had equal chips with the blinds getting high. I played very aggressive and stole most pots. The other guy was down to 1000-1500, and I called his all in. He had a good hand and he doubled up. I again got him down to 1000-1500 by stealing. He doubled up again because he raised his strong hand. I think if I would have folded either time, I would have busted him out. It seems that when a passive player shows strength, that is a good sign he has something and best to fold. on 21. Jul 2003 19:26 palman wrote: > Here's the situation..... > > You've got the chiplead... 7000 to 1000. You're the BB, and he's the SB. > Blinds 250/500 He proceeds to raise all in with his 1000(750+ his SB of 250), > leaving 500 more for you to call. > > Heads up and short stacked... the odds of him having a GREAT hand aren't that > high, of course there's always the chance he may. > > So you've got 500 to call to win 1500, and the tournament. With purely an odds > look at the bet..... there are VERY few hands he can have which would make you > enough of an underdog to warrant not calling his bet. > > So hands like 98 I've always assumed are call hands. Am I wrong? How bad > would the hand have to be to NOT call the bet? 2-7 2-8? > > > Suppose instead of him having 1,000 chips.. he has 1250-1500 chips total. > > > Do you just sit and wait for you to have a hand... realizing you can let him > take a few blinds and one all in with a solid hand of yours will still put him > away? The worst feeling would be letting someone with 1,000 chips just blind > steal up to 2,000 or 2,500. > > > However at the same time, I find me telling myself "I have the pot odds to > call" and I call with crap, double him up, and all the sudden I'm 2nd. > > > I know this is an extensively complicated part of poker (headsup, especially > with high blinds) and likely every player on the forum plays heads up > differently. The only type of heads up play that always loses is the especially > passive player that lefts you steal the blinds too often. Anyone have any > thoughts on the above situation? | ||
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