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Server Time: 2/13/2012 2:29:23 AM PACIFIC |
 QQ in No Limit tourney, AcesUp5, 20. Jul 2003 09:26 | ||
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| Ok, this hand recently came up in an online poker tourney at UB. Middle of tourney I have $4k which is average in chips. Started with $1K. Blinds are 50-100 and i get QQ on the button. Under the gun opens it for a raise of 2500 with 6k in chips. I reraise all in and he shows AA and wins. Is this a total mis-play by me. JJ and QQ are so hard to play. Dont know if i played that to strong, or do you think its smarter to just fold since i have nothing invested and wait for a better hand. ITs just so hard to fold that!!! Let me know what you think and maybe some advice for playing no limit tournies. I need a strategy for playing these tourneys, any tips there to would help alot. | ||
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| Re: QQ in No Limit tourney, philly, 20. Jul 2003 09:58 | ||
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| Proceed with caution!! I have been knocked out of several tournaments, including UPF, recently by overplaying QQ. On the other hand, It has allowed me to double up my stack on more than one occasion. I will defer to the experts on what the best move is here but even if you are in the lead pre-flop an all-in here is most certainly a gamble. In the middle rounds of a tourney with a decent stack I think I would have to lay them down. | ||
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| Re: QQ in No Limit tourney, 4 POKER, 20. Jul 2003 10:09 | ||
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| I don't have much experience with N/L play but, putting in over half your chips with Q-Q sounds a little steep. I'm surprised that the player with the 2 Aces bet so heavily pre-flop. Anyway, I agree with philly here and would proceed with caution with this hand. Had the raise been a smaller one, I may have taken a shot, but to put in 2500 of my stack of 4000 may be too much?? | ||
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| Re: QQ in No Limit tourney, AcesUp5, 20. Jul 2003 10:35 | ||
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| When he made such a big bet like that under the gun, i couldnt put him on aces. My thinking was he had a hand he didnt want called and just wanted the blinds. On the other hand, if he did get called, he wasnt to big of an underdog, like 88 or 99 maybe even AK. One of the main reasons i reraised with QQ | ||
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| Re: QQ in No Limit tourney, 4 POKER, 20. Jul 2003 10:40 | ||
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| Hey Aces Up5, Yeah, I don't think I would have put him on Aces myself. Most players will either limp in with that hand and HOPE that somebody else raises it for them, and now they could come over the top....or, they raise a decent amount of chips, but not an amount that would fold off everybody! I see why you committed your chips, but I still think it was too big of a raise for you to call with...... I just hate that pair sometimes! (LOL). 4P- | ||
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| Re: QQ in No Limit tourney, Mark, 20. Jul 2003 10:41 | ||
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| Some people will make a big open with AA in hopes of just that thinking. Lots of people expect the hand to get slowplayed and would never expect the UTG raiser to have the rockets, making his play very deceptive. mark | ||
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| Re: QQ in No Limit tourney, noiseboy, 21. Jul 2003 10:10 | ||
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| I do that sometimes. I figure if I always try to limp with AA's then I'm too easy to read. If I put in a big raise, some people will think that I don't WANT a call when in fact I want nothing more than a call or reraise. This also helps later when you want to steal you just make the same amount of raise as you did with the AA's, and people will remember. You have to vary your play, sometimes limp with AA's, sometimes raise. When to do which is all about timing, which I haven't exactly mastered myself. I think if the read was that he didn't have AA's then you make a big raise to shut out the field. The play was correct based on the read, but in this case the read was wrong. | ||
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| Re: QQ in No Limit tourney, Mark, 20. Jul 2003 10:39 | ||
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| QQ is not a great hand to call a UTG raiser with, especially when he is the chip leader. If he was a loose player than maybe calling or reraising is a strong play, but if he's tight, you should muck it. I had to learn it the hard way because i wouldn't listen to others advice but, DON'T TANGLE WITH THE CHIP LEADER WITHOUT A MADE HAND. QQ is a good hand but not great, fold it agaisnt a chip leader's big raise. I tend to make a moderate size raise with it, and then bet the flop heavy if no overcards fall. Mark | ||
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| Re: QQ in No Limit tourney, BEE JAY, 20. Jul 2003 11:49 | ||
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| The AA was hoping for someone to look down and find KK or QQ in his hand when he made such a huge raise from first position. Unfortunately, it was you. I know how hard it is to get away from QQ. It takes real discipline - especially when some players make this kind of play with any pair. I guess the key is to know your player, which is hard to do online. Here are some thoughts for the next time a similar situation shows up: 1) you are in great shape. Having 4K at only 50/100 blinds is an even more comfortable position than your ave. chips; 2) the raiser had enough chips to break you; 3) many players make this move with AK all the time - you would be only a slight favorite with the risk of losing all your chips; 4) it's so early in the tourney. Also, you mentioned waiting for a better hand. Well, you may not get one. Keep in mind that NL tournaments have more to do with good situations than good cards. Hope I've helped a little. Good luck. | ||
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| Re: QQ in No Limit tourney, chasepoker, 20. Jul 2003 13:43 | ||
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| I think what you have to ask yourself is what hand do you expect to see the other guy have that you like ? Dont concern yourself with how he played it ( massively overbetting the pot) ,that's his business, but just go through a list of hands that you want to see him holding when you both flip over your cards. AA likely KK also likely QQ unlikely JJ if he was a poor player maybe AK most likely in No Limit tourny's as people seem to over play AK thanks to Mr Slansky's tourny book IMO, most likely as there are more combinaitons of AK than KK & AA AQ not a chance if he is a good player ( but possibley if he is poor) Pair TT or below ? no way With this in mind the best you can hope for is you to be a slight favourite over the AK or in big trouble to the over pair. The trouble with QQ ( and JJ ) is that it aint that great it might win you the pot but if you are sticking all your cash in then it is probably going to be at best a 50-50 and at worst getting hammered by an over pair. The other day i folded QQ in pretty much a similar situation and someone called with AK only to be shown AA by the original bettor. Of course everything i have said about QQ changes if it is a desperate short stack, someone raising every hand or a shorthanded table but if it isnt one of these i would throw it away and wait for a better situation. Chasepoker | ||
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| Re: QQ in No Limit tourney, AcesUp5, 21. Jul 2003 02:27 | ||
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| Thanks Chase, Great stuff!! Like the way you think. | ||
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| Re: QQ in No Limit tourney, shorn, 21. Jul 2003 05:36 | ||
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| You must fold here. Again, the key to the tournament is surviving and getting to the point where a decision like this one will make you some $$. You weren't at that point yet, so playing with him isn't worth it. The only hand I would have pushed all-in here with is AA. | ||
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| Re: QQ in No Limit tourney, Slate, 21. Jul 2003 07:46 | ||
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| That's a tough call. In my experience, except for the pros, when most people get AA they instinctively bet instead of analyzing the table. I think that person did the right move by betting that amount. He needed to protect his hand. I have seen AA lose many times and the person is devastated because AA is the best pocket cards in holdem and he did the right thing by protecting them. You having QQ is tough, online its tough to watch a player and pick up details from the chip stacking, movement, etc. I would not have gone all-in with QQ. I would have called or folded since the flop can go either way. Calling you would have seen the flop and saw how he bet after the flop. In a live game I had QQ everyone folded to a AJ-offsuit who went all in. This was a tough call for me since my all-in would be match his and the loser would walk. My instinct told me this player wanted to double his chips the easy way. So I called. He was surprised to see my QQ and was ready to go home. Flop came 2s,Qc,10d. Now I flopped a set. Turn came 4c and he called out king me and river was a king and he won. Did I make the right call? Yes and I left not upset because I knew I did the right thing. Good Luck playing QQ. | ||
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| Re: QQ in No Limit tourney, noiseboy, 21. Jul 2003 09:49 | ||
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| Lay it down if you think your opponent has AA's or KK's, otherwise raise all-in to drive out other hands like A-big and KQ suited. I'm not being sarcastic, it's just that this is one of those total judgement calls which relies mainly on what you know about your opponent. I've gotten broke many times in exactly the same situation. | ||
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