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Server Time: 11/21/2008 10:30:27 PM PACIFIC |
 qick question, mongi, 19. Jul 2003 13:08 | ||
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| I am in early position with pocket eights in a loose passive 4-8 holdem game. The UTG raises and I call. I based my decision on the table dynamics of this particular game. Typically there was not much aggression; raises and reraises were few and far between. When there was a raise there would still be at least 5 people seeing the flop. I didn't believe there would be a reraise. Of course it ends up getting capped, the flop didn't hit me and I end up losing four small bets. What is your approach to medium pocket pairs in situations like this and others as well? By the way I didn't even think about reraising here; I certainly didn't want to go heads up with an UTG raiser with a medium pocket pair. thanks Mongi | ||
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| Re: qick question, Roy Cooke, 19. Jul 2003 13:51 | ||
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| Hi Mongi The fact that there was usually 5 players would make calling with this hand in this situation correct, but close. It just did not materialize in this situation. I assume the pre-flop callers are usually post-flop callers also. The fact that you are directly behind the raiser weakens the hand over if you had players in-between the raiser and yourself. But I would still make the call in your shoes. Roy Cooke on 19. Jul 2003 13:08 mongi wrote: > I am in early position with pocket eights in a loose passive 4-8 holdem game. > The UTG raises and I call. I based my decision on the table dynamics of this > particular game. Typically there was not much aggression; raises and reraises > were few and far between. When there was a raise there would still be at least 5 > people seeing the flop. I didn't believe there would be a reraise. Of course it > ends up getting capped, the flop didn't hit me and I end up losing four small > bets. > > What is your approach to medium pocket pairs in situations like this and others > as well? > > By the way I didn't even think about reraising here; I certainly didn't want to > go heads up with an UTG raiser with a medium pocket pair. > > thanks > > Mongi | ||
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| Re: qick question, Mark, 19. Jul 2003 22:05 | ||
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| I would pretty much do the same thing as you, in a similar situation. On the other hand, Phil Helmuth suggests 3-betting in your spot with your hand. That way, if the UTG raiser is on something like AK or AQ and doesn't connect, you have a good shot at winning the pot on an early round. His plays tend to be controversial, but it is hard to argue with his results. mark | ||
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| Re: qick question, 4 POKER, 19. Jul 2003 22:29 | ||
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| I don't know...if the game is really loose, putting in 3 bets with 8-8 in EP could be a costly re-raise in my opinion. Grant it, if the UTG raiser has a hand like A-K, you would want to play your 8-8 heads up,but when the game is really loose (like he mentioned), your reasoning for doing this may go right out the window when you see just how many other players wil call your raise. Not to mention, if the UTG raiser is a tight player, you may not want to even call with such a low pair. If the game was shorthanded or at a much higher limit....that may be the better choice to make if you were going to play the hand at all..but in a loose game, I think your own options should be to either just flat call his raise hoping to flop someting great.....or fold all- together, (depending on who raised it UTG). Even if you presently hold the best hand....8-8 is still a vulnerable pair. I definitely wouldn't 3 bet it in a fishy 10 handed game. 4P- | ||
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| Re: qick question, philly, 20. Jul 2003 09:42 | ||
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| By making it 3 bets, wouldn't you further thin the field, even in a loose game, by making subsequent players cold call 3 bets? It seems the raise here may be preferable to just calling. I think I would either have to lay down my pair or raise in this situation. | ||
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| Re: qick question, 4 POKER, 20. Jul 2003 09:58 | ||
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| Hey Philly, If the game is 10 handed and is really loose, there just may be several of them that would put in 3 bets cold and I just don't like putting in 3 bets with a vulnerable pair. I understand what you're saying, but I think I would just call the raise and hope to flop really good against the possibility of having a larger field. But I have also been in situations in a "live" game where I didn't even call the UTG raiser beause I knew he was a solid or tight player. Shorthanded.....perhaps, but not in a full game with a bunch of fishies! 4P- | ||
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| Re: qick question, philly, 20. Jul 2003 10:04 | ||
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| I guess its safe to assume that the original raiser would probably cap in this situation also. I would definitely have to lay down. | ||
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| Re: qick question, philly, 20. Jul 2003 10:06 | ||
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| of course, once you lay down the 88 you are guaranteed to see an 8 come out on the flop. : ) | ||
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| Re: qick question, 4 POKER, 20. Jul 2003 10:11 | ||
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| Absolutely:)....not one, but both of them! | ||
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| Re: qick question, Mark, 20. Jul 2003 10:43 | ||
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| That's just what Phil advocates in his new book | ||
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| Re: qick question, LJH, 20. Jul 2003 13:18 | ||
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| MONGI, IF YOU ARE GOING TO PLAY, YOU MUST RAISE TO ISOLATE THE OPENER. HE MIGHT HAVE AK OR KQ OR EVEN A SMALL PAIR. YOU MUST PUSH. LJH | ||
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