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Server Time: 11/21/2008 10:20:39 PM PACIFIC |
 Going fishing, Banning, 18. Jul 2003 23:34 | ||
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| I noticed this phenomenon. When in late position with a good hand like AK it is conventionally wise to raise preflop. What I have noticed is that against a big school of fish it usually isn't. They all limp in preflop and then when you raise they all just call...what this means is that the pot is bigger and thus gives them all greater odds to stick it out and try to draw to their outs plus they all get married to their hands. When I have AK in early position i tend to raise because the two bets scares away some fish and at least gives me some reduction in variance. I often find that when the pot is smaller on the flop it is easier to scare away the fish because they are not as married to their hands. As such I only raise preflop from a late position for value such as high suited connectors. AKs is pretty obvious but any sort of good suited cards that can go for flushes or such. Save the raises designed to limit the field for earlier position for hands that aren't as coordinated. Alot of players complain about how they get sucked out on by the loose passive fish. That is how I try to reduce the amount of schooling. Reduce pot size preflop so that they don't get married to their hands and that way they aren't getting proper odds to draw to their outs as much. It was what I was trying before and it seemed to work decently what do you guys think? | ||
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| Re: Going fishing, cold_cash, 19. Jul 2003 17:35 | ||
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| I see the logic behind your argument, and I'm certainly no expert, but I would put in at least one raise w/ AK in ANY position, especially if it's suited. Even if this doesn't chase out those who are waiting for that miracle 2-7-7 flop, that flop isn't going to come very often. Besides, I don't have a problem with anybody being "married" to their hand if I'm holding AK. It's true that you will probably suffer some bad beats by those who are despertaly clinging to garbage, but if you get even a little piece of the flop w/ your AK you have a good chance of being in the lead here. (If you don't, make sure YOU"RE not the one who's "married" .... lol) On that rare occasion when the flop hits you right between the eyes you're going to be glad you raised, and you're going to be even happier that you have a couple people "married" to marginal holdings. Just my opinion. | ||
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| Re: Going fishing, mongi, 20. Jul 2003 11:26 | ||
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| If say 3 or 4 people have limped in I would definately raise to get the blinds out and have position over the rest. The advantage of being in late position is that you can see who has shown strength by the time it gets to you. If people limp to you typically (not always) they have a decent hand but not a raising hand. In most situations, AK is the best hand and it is never a bad idea to get your money in with the best hand. Raising can also give you more info. For instance, if people are betting into you on the flop you can give them more credit for a good hand than if you had just limped, making it easier to get away from the hand. If it is a family pot I may just smooth call. This is a situation were I don't want to put to much money in the pot with this many players. Too many people will stick around when you flop top pair and it will be difficult to overcome all of the collective outs against you. Anytime I think I can limit the pot to 3 or 4 players I will raise. | ||
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| Re: Going fishing, shorn, 21. Jul 2003 05:05 | ||
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| Generally, it is improper to raise with unsuited high cards in late position after a number of people have called. Most players will not fold to 1 raise after they have already called one bet (which is proper play on their part), so by raising you are effectively increasing the odds for them to stay with longshot draws on the flop. However, if the hand is suited your raise is for value so then it is the right play. It really depends upon how many limpers there are. With only two, then i would raise to try and limit the field. 3 is more questionable and 4 is a definite call IMO. At that point, I want to see the flop cheaply in case it doesn't match my hand so that I can muck if someone bets out. And, if I do hit an A or K, then I am most likely the clear favorite and can play aggressively at that point. | ||
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