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Server Time: 11/21/2008 10:34:08 PM PACIFIC |
 busted on a suited connector, noiseboy, 18. Jul 2003 08:24 | ||
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| Well I wasn't really busted, but it did turn me from one of the chip leaders into one of the short stacks. OK, UPF NL tourney, I'm dealt 76s with around T2000 chips, I limp in early position. This might have been my mistake, why even play when I have chips to protect and I could easily make the last table in cruise control just playing premium hands? However, this is the UPF tourney, and I was on the warpath, I was in this thing to try to win, not just place, so I decide that I want to do the Doyle Brunson "get in cheap and try to break somebody" strategy. I figure I can get away really cheap if I don't flop to it. There were several limpers with no raise and the flop comes out T-6-7, with two to a suit. Since there was no raise before the flop, I don't really put anyone on pocket TT's, although it's possible. I don't put anyone on a set of 77's or 66's because two of each are already accounted for. I bet out a reasonable amount and get a small raise. Then I believe it was folded around to me, so that I was heads up with the raiser. At this point I think, "he probably has the tens, I have the best hand at the moment, but it's vulnerable to the board pairing or him pairing his kicker or tripping up, but I do have some outs of my own to a FH." Also, I should mention that I had a fair amount more chips than him. My conclusion was that I should try to win the pot right then on the flop with a large bet, which might fold him off of his top pair and if I'm wrong and he's on the flush draw trying to semi-bluff, he will have to pay through the nose, and risk the whole tournament to draw out on me. Was this correct thinking? I wish I had the hand history so I could put the exact betting amounts, but I hadn't ever used UB before and wasn't sure how that all works. It turns out my read was correct that my opponent had KT, and he called all-in and spiked the ten on the turn to beat me for a huge pot. Was it right for my opponent to call all-in? He did have pretty large portion of his stack in there at that point. Thanks for any input. | ||
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| Re: busted on a suited connector, noiseboy, 18. Jul 2003 08:28 | ||
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| Oops, I mean he spiked the K his kicker, not the T, although it's the same result, he hit one of his outs. | ||
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| UB Tourney Hand Histories, TKarrde, 18. Jul 2003 08:44 | ||
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| I have the hand histories from all 4 tables last night if anyone wants me to send to them or needs a question answered. I'll do my best to find the info but there is A LOT of info. TKarrde "The next best thing to playing and winning, is playing and losing." | ||
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| Re: UB Tourney Hand Histories, noiseboy, 18. Jul 2003 08:52 | ||
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| Can you email all of them to me, or is that too much data? There are a few specific ones I'm interested in, like the one mentioned above, but I just though it might be easier to just send them all. Or maybe we could just post them somewhere on the web, so that anyone can get what they want, I'm not really techno-savy so I'm not sure how difficult or practical these ideas are. Thanks. bobby@tenspeed.com | ||
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| Re: UB Tourney Hand Histories, Guru, 18. Jul 2003 09:05 | ||
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| TK, Coud you send the entire hand histories to me, please. I especially want the hand that I kindly let you make the money. It was the least I could do since you worked so hard to put it together. My address is mmstonei@yahoo.com. Thanks. Guru/BryanW | ||
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| Re: UB Tourney Hand Histories, MozMan, 18. Jul 2003 10:25 | ||
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| Hey TK- Can you email me the histories? You should still have my email address. If not, let me know here. You might just want to post the final results (order of bust, first to last) for prosperity. -Moz "May your chips never fall from a cow." | ||
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| Re: UB Tourney Hand Histories, TKarrde, 18. Jul 2003 11:32 | ||
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| Delete it Mike. Bad news. I thought they sent me everything but they only sent me the history for the hands I was in on. So I got quite a bit but not all of it. Need Wren or Mike to request the hand history of the final table if we want to see it all. But I will send out what I got. Pretty good stuff if you can wade through it. TKarrde "The next best thing to playing and winning, is playing and losing." | ||
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| Re: UB Tourney Hand Histories, Mike812, 18. Jul 2003 11:52 | ||
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| How can I get the history for the final table? Mike www.pokeranon.com | ||
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| Re: UB Tourney Hand Histories, TKarrde, 18. Jul 2003 11:55 | ||
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| Email memberservices@ultimatebet.com and ask for your hand histories from the UPF tournament. Hector put it in a nice spreadsheet for me. Much better than the huge text email I got last time I requested hand histories. TKarrde "The next best thing to playing and winning, is playing and losing." | ||
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| Re: UB Tourney Hand Histories, Don Quixote, 18. Jul 2003 12:19 | ||
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| Hector sent me my hand histories as an attachment. but my attachment was denied to me by either my ISP or my Outlook Express, or maybe Norton's A/V. I am not a techie so I dont know what happened. I emailed my ISP asking them why I didnt get it and that I had done business with UB and couldnt understand why their email attachment was unsafe. Anyway, TK, I think we were at the same table most of the evening, so would you please be so kind as to forward your histories to me also. Thanks, Hoosier Buddy. Don Quixote (Diogenes) p.s. I will post my take on the tourney later. It will be from the perspective of a nearly clueless newbie. on 18. Jul 2003 11:55 TKarrde wrote: > Email memberservices@ultimatebet.com and ask for your hand histories from the UPF tournament. Hector put > it in a nice spreadsheet for me. Much better than the huge text email I got last time I requested hand > histories. > > TKarrde > > "The next best thing to playing and winning, is playing and losing." | ||
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| Re: UB Tourney Hand Histories, TKarrde, 18. Jul 2003 12:30 | ||
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| I don't think I have your email address. Send me a note at sbirrel@kimball.com and I will get you what I have. TKarrde "The next best thing to playing and winning, is playing and losing." | ||
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| Re: busted on a suited connector, stdioh, 18. Jul 2003 12:18 | ||
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| I think that you played the hand correctly. | ||
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| Re: busted on a suited connector, noiseboy, 18. Jul 2003 12:24 | ||
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| After going to twodimes and using the calculator, it turns out that the hand was much less vulnerable than I thought. It's around a 75% favorite on the flop depending on suits and such, which I'm not sure I remember exactly. Really the only thing to worry about was that my read was wrong and that my opponent was slowplaying a set of tens. In fact, now that I know how big a favorite I was, a case could perhaps be made for a smaller over-the-top raise to "sell the hand" since I don't mind a call? Then if the ten paired I could save myself some money on a laydown. Overall, the big bet seems safer at that stage in the tournament. Thanks for the input. | ||
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| Re: busted on a suited connector, tpir90036, 18. Jul 2003 12:23 | ||
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| > > OK, UPF NL tourney, I'm dealt 76s with around T2000 chips, I limp in early > position. This might have been my mistake, why even play when I have chips to > protect and I could easily make the last table in cruise control just playing > premium hands? i certainly wouldn't make this call in early position at his point in the tournament (*maybe* with QJs and up, and even that might be too weak)....but that doesn't mean it wasn't correct. it seems like you had a decent feel for the table and felt you could sneak in on the cheap (which you did). > There were several limpers with no raise and the flop comes out T-6-7, with two > to a suit. Since there was no raise before the flop, I don't really put anyone > on pocket TT's, although it's possible. I don't put anyone on a set of 77's or > 66's because two of each are already accounted for. > > I bet out a reasonable amount and get a small raise. Then I believe it was > folded around to me, so that I was heads up with the raiser. At this point I > think, "he probably has the tens, I have the best hand at the moment, but it's > vulnerable to the board pairing or him pairing his kicker or tripping up, but I > do have some outs of my own to a FH." Also, I should mention that I had a fair > amount more chips than him. My conclusion was that I should try to win the pot > right then on the flop with a large bet, which might fold him off of his top > pair and if I'm wrong and he's on the flush draw trying to semi-bluff, he will > have to pay through the nose, and risk the whole tournament to draw out on me. > Was this correct thinking? you are almost a 3:1 favorite in this situation assuming the KT which i read ahead and know that he has ;). i don't think you did anything unreasonable given the fitting flop. > I wish I had the hand history so I could put the exact betting amounts, but I > hadn't ever used UB before and wasn't sure how that all works. the hand history link is at the bottom right hand corner of the screen. you can arrow back through previous hands and it shows all action on all rounds. > It turns out my > read was correct that my opponent had KT, and he called all-in and spiked the > ten on the turn to beat me for a huge pot. Was it right for my opponent to call > all-in? He did have pretty large portion of his stack in there at that point. > without knowing the exact stack sizes i can say that i probably wouldn't have risked all-in in this situation unless i was getting desperate. top pair is nice and all but with only tens and a less than optimal board i would have probably passed unless i was acting first and thought i could get away with stealing it. bottom line: it seems like you played it just fine to me from the flop on. possibly you should have been in protect mode, but one takes their chances ;) i am somewhat new to NL though so don't take my word for it. any experts out there please chime in and correct us!! | ||
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| Re: busted on a suited connector, noiseboy, 18. Jul 2003 12:44 | ||
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| Thanks for the response, much of what you say makes sense. I think you are right that conservative mode might have been better till it got to the last ten players. I had a large stack, and no real need to take risks. There is one thing I would point out, however, in NL you'd actually be in more danger of getting broke with QJs than 76s. In limit play, QJs is a much stronger hand, but if I were to flop 1 or even 2 pair with QJ in NL, then I could be in big trouble. If I flop 2 pair, then Str8 draws are a real problem for me. Even if I flop the flush, there is still the danger of a higher flush, though this is true of 67 as well, I can get away from the hand if a fourth suited card comes. With 67s it's really easy to get away from the hand if I don't flop to it really hard, like a pair and open-ended str8 draw, a made str8, small trips, etc... Then I know I likely have somebody trapped and I can win (or lose, in this case) a big pot. Just have to be careful about losing all your chips with a non-nut flush. In NL hands like KQ and QJ and AT are death, because they get trapped by hands like AA, KK, QQ and AK, although they can be played in certain favorable situations like when you are first in from late position, or if you are playing at a short table. | ||
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| Re: busted on a suited connector, tpir90036, 18. Jul 2003 13:15 | ||
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| your point about the trapping hands of death is a very good one, and one that i think a lot of people don't take seriously enough (myself included). i of course would find it hard to fold a KQs every time....would a hand like this be worth playing if you could get in cheap and were able to lay it down without a straight draw or better? i am still not sure. most of the experts seem to say absolutely fold unless you were acting late....but even then it still could be possible to get trapped. is there more that i am missing with this hand? does AQs suffer the same fate? also does this play become any smarter in a NL game that is *not* a freeze out tourney (ring no-limit/rebuy stages)? | ||
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| Re: busted on a suited connector, noiseboy, 18. Jul 2003 13:40 | ||
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| KQ and AQ are dangerous from the early spots, but in tournaments sometimes you have to play them from wherever if you are short stacked. In ring game NL, I'm not sure. As long as you are acutely aware of all the dangers, it might be OK to play them, I suppose a lot would depend on table conditions, especially the aggressiveness of the table, because any reasonable sized raise and you might have to bail. Then again, people like Gus Hansen get away with playing total garbage and win tournaments, so I don't think anything is written in stone. | ||
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| busted by an offsuit 5-gapper., tpir90036, 18. Jul 2003 13:50 | ||
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| here here to garbage. i played in a small stakes NL ring game last night ($20 buy-in) with rebuys allowed and people were playing all sorts of slop. i lost most of my stack when i re-raised all in with AJs against a horrible player on a shorter stack who was trying to steal after the flop came up A-J-3 rainbow. he called with 9-3o (???) and ended up nailing two running 9's and not knowing that he had even won. at least i was right that he had nothing when i raised him..... ;) | ||
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| Re: busted by an offsuit 5-gapper., noiseboy, 18. Jul 2003 14:31 | ||
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| right read, wrong time! It's happened to me more times than I can count! :) | ||
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