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Server Time: 9/7/2008 5:41:30 PM PACIFIC |
 betting "for value", cold_cash, 17. Jul 2003 23:12 | ||
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| Hey everybody. I'm doing my best to get a hold on odds and how they should affect my play (pot odds/implied odds, etc), and I've run across the term "betting for value" and I'm not sure if I know exactly what it means. Here's what I think -- let's say that I flop the nut flush draw, making me about a 2:1 underdog to make my flush by the river. From my understanding at this point, does this mean I could bet this draw as long as I'm sure I will get at least 2 callers? Let's say that the turn card comes but, alas, it misses me. Now, I'm a 4:1 underdog to make my flush on the river (I think). So now, in order to bet my draw "for value", I would have to be sure I would get 4 callers? Am I on the right track with this, or am I way off base? Thanks for any replies. PS -- I watched a little of the tourney you guys played earlier tonight at UB. Seemed like everyone was having a pretty good time. I read about a hand that I think I saw (I only watched for about 10 mins). KK vs. AK and whoever had AK caught a huge straight draw and knocked the other person out... lol. Pretty good stuff. | ||
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| Re: betting "for value", Brian462, 17. Jul 2003 23:18 | ||
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| You would just have to compare your odds to the pot odds. So if at the river you have a 5 in 1 chance to make your hand, the pot should have over 5 times what the bet is to you for you to call it. Early in the hand this basically means that to go for a 3 in 1 shot hand you will need 3 people, but ultimately you are just looking at the amount in the pot. | ||
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| Re: betting "for value", cold_cash, 17. Jul 2003 23:23 | ||
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| Ok. I think I understand pot odds (if the pot is laying me 4:1 after the turn, then it would be "correct" for me to chase my flush, for example), but is that the same as betting my flush draw for value? | ||
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| Re: betting "for value", beigs, 18. Jul 2003 08:49 | ||
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| Betting for value is when you to get more money in the pot. If there's a situation where you know players will call, and you've got them beat, you will bet out to get more money. It's kind of the opposite of betting to protect your hand where you would bet hoping to scare people away. I'd love to come up with a more specific example but my brain is not working right now. | ||
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| Re: betting "for value", noiseboy, 18. Jul 2003 09:14 | ||
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| Most of the time people talk about betting for value, they are talking about betting a hand that they think is best and you WANT a call. It could also mean in a multi-way pot that you are betting or raising the best draw because you know you will win more than your fair share. For instance, if you were in a six way pot and the flop came down with a lot of st8 and flush draws, it wouldn't make sense to say you were betting top pair for value, because even though you likely have the best hand at the moment, you are a dog to win the hand. However, in that same situation if you had a premium draw like a straight flush, you could bet that for value, even though you likely don't have the best hand. The most common use of the term betting for value comes on the river, when the question becomes not "do I have the best hand" but rather "will I have the best hand when I am called?" There are often situations where you don't bet the best hand on the river because only better hands will call. However, with a different flop texture so that there are possible hands that would call a bet, you might bet something marginal "for value" if you think you have the best hand and that someone might call. Hope this helps, I know it's short on specifics, but I'm still on my first cup of coffee. | ||
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| Re: betting "for value", noiseboy, 18. Jul 2003 09:19 | ||
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| In the above post I realized I should clarify one sentence, I wrote: "However, in that same situation if you had a premium draw like a straight flush, you could bet that for value, even though you likely don't have the best hand AT THE MOMENT." I mean if you have a straight flush draw that's a HUGE hand, and a favorite to win, but on the flop you don't have anything completed. | ||
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| Re: betting "for value", cold_cash, 18. Jul 2003 11:17 | ||
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| Thanks for the replies... I think I'm getting it. If I'm betting "for value", I'm betting because I want to be called. If I'm not betting "for value", I may be betting to thin the field, or bluffing, etc. Is my example in the original post correct? (Bettting a draw when I'm relatively sure I will get at least enough callers for the flush draw.) In other words, if I bet on the turn with a flush draw because I'm sure I will get at least 4 callers, would this be considered betting for value? If not, should I make that same bet if I'm NOT sure how many callers I would get? What if there are only 2 other players involved in the pot? Does the smaller field mean that I can't (or shouldn't) bet my draw "for value"? Thanks a lot. (I'm struggling a little with this term and odds in general, obviously.) | ||
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| Re: betting "for value", noiseboy, 18. Jul 2003 11:56 | ||
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| Yep, as long as you know that you are getting overlay for your money, you are betting for value. However, if you aren't certain that you will get overlay, then it's probably better to say that it's a semi-bluff? That's a bit of a grey area for me. :) | ||
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| Re: betting "for value", cold_cash, 18. Jul 2003 12:11 | ||
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| Very cool. Thanks for taking the time to help me out. | ||
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| Re: betting "for value", stdioh, 18. Jul 2003 12:41 | ||
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| Generally speaking you don't want to bet your flush draws for value unless you have a large number of callers already. So if you have a bet out from early position and 4 players call that bet, then you might make a small raise (minimum) for value because you know that they will all call. In general you want to take free cards until you hit your hand. When in doubt, don't bet your flush draws. Usually I'll bet a flush draw on a semibluff. I'll be trying to win the pot now, but if I get a caller I have outs to the flush and I also get deceptive value if I hit the flush. | ||
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