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Server Time: 8/29/2008 11:53:28 AM PACIFIC |
 lamentations of a loser, tpir90036, 17. Jul 2003 22:48 | ||
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| hey all, i am new here and got torn up tonight and am looking for some advice. it was an 8 person no-limit hold 'em game with a $40 buy-in. the game was loose aggressive and there was a maniac to my immediate right who would raise with 5-2 offsuit under the gun for the heck of it. i have been studying/playing limit hold 'em for a while now and understand the concepts of tight, aggressive play. but i got totally massacred by these people. people were drawing out on me left and right no matter what i charged them. should i have just tightened up to the point of hardly playing at all? or should i have loosened up and tried to catch miracle flops with garbage like Q-small off in late position?(which people were more than happy to do). to make matters worse they were the type of players who thought that check-raising someone meant they were world championship material. they didn't know why they were doing it, but they knew it was called a check-raise and that it was "cool". *sigh* i have read t.j. cloutier's book and i guess just don't understand no-limit strategy. he recommends not playing draws, not playing big "dangerous" cards, not playing small pairs, not playing suited aces, basically not playing from what i can gather unless you are in last position or have a big pair. i wasn't in an actual freeze-out tournament though and i could have re-bought if i wanted to (which i didn't), so shouldn't drawing hands that i am getting proper pot odds to play be played? t.j. says no. he claims he "never plays connectors" and waits for top hand. am i a retard, unlucky and steamed or both? thanks in advance.... | ||
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| Re: lamentations of a loser, Barry T, 18. Jul 2003 03:31 | ||
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| Hi. Tournaments have an annoying characteristic: when you lose your chips, you go home. When you play drawing hands, you are doing so with the understanding that, even if you are getting the right pot odds for a cash game, you are going to lose the hand most of the time. In tournaments, you can't afford that luxury. And in no-limit tournaments, you frequently are no even getting the right odds, because you cannot call a significant raise by your opponent. So yes, you do need to give up drawing hands, suited connectors and that sort of thing. A lot people even otherwise sane people, play very wildly during a rebuy period planning to either build a lot of chips early, or keep rebuying until the "real tournament" starts. If you chose to enter such an event without planning to rebuy, you are at a disadvantage there as well. In response, you need to play tight, and put a lot of pressure on your freewheeling opponents when you do find yourself with a good hand (or the hand you decide to play). In NL, you can simply push all if you feel the player on your right is taking extreme liberties and you have found soemthing you want to play. Of course, this all depends on blinds, stack sizes and structure, but to do not have to mix it up post flop if you do not want to. So play very tight, make punishing raises when you find a hand, fasten your seat belt and hang on. Good luck. BarryT | ||
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| Re: lamentations of a loser, tpir90036, 18. Jul 2003 07:33 | ||
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| thanks for the response barry. it is the morning after now and i have calmed down a little ;) i just couldn't grasp how to adjust my play to these people. i would flop top pair with top kicker and put in huge raises only to have people stay in until the end and beat me with two pair (usually 9's and 3's or something else annoying). i suppose in the long run that is to my benefit....but in the short run it sure does suck. | ||
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| Re: lamentations of a loser, MozMan, 18. Jul 2003 08:49 | ||
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| Hey- Sklansky has a pretty good section on crazy games in (I think) Holdem for Advanced Players. It's a good read, and he explains the rationale pretty well. Basically, he says, play only AA, KK, QQ, JJ and AKs and pump them for all they are worth... but be ready to fold when the board doesn't comply. He also says don't play ANYTHING else, even if you're sure you've got the best of it, because the crazies will outdraw you too often. This is an extremely tight and aggressive position and very difficult to play because 1) you will be bored out of your skull as very long periods of time will pass where you see absolutely no action, 2) Even when you do play, you will still get sucked-out pretty often, 3) you will make money, but not as much as you would in a more standard game. -Moz "The reports of my assimilation are greatly exaggerated." | ||
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| Re: lamentations of a loser, tpir90036, 18. Jul 2003 11:59 | ||
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| i will have to go back and re-read that section of HEFAP. i think it's a very valid point though because the two huge pots i won were with KK and AK and nailed flops. both times against people drawing completely dead with bottom pair and no draw whatsoever. i didn't go for their bluff on the flop......or the turn......or the river. why they kept trying i have no idea. my play definitely suffered late in the night because i was totally bored and literally had not played a hand for almost an hour. i started limping with very weak hands in late position (stealing was impossible) and slowly urinated my money away. anyway, good post. thanks! | ||
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| Re: lamentations of a loser, Scrubbie, 18. Jul 2003 12:33 | ||
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| I wouldn't suggest you join in on the mayhem, unless you are prepared for some pretty big swings. Sure, you can start playing Ace anything, and suited connectors ... and you will win some pots. You will loose some too. Just hope you win more than you loose. At that point you will be playing the "luck" factor, like everyone else. You will be playing with "Hope" and "Lucky". I say play opposite the grain. If you are at a table with a ton of maniacs, then play uber tight in early and middle position. Use your "tight" status to win pots when you are in late position with "good" hands, against medium stacks. (Don't over due the late position betting though, or you negate your "tight" status) ... and when you finally get a piece, push, and as Barry said ... hang on! Good Luck brother! Scrubbie "I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three" | ||
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