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Server Time: 9/7/2008 8:17:55 PM PACIFIC |
 UB tourney, my assessment, Paul Stine, 17. Jul 2003 19:36 | ||
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| Busted out of the UB tourney in the third or fourth limit; maybe about 22. My impression is that I saw a lot of people calling bet bigs with draws that didn't warrant them. Calling and hoping. Typical example: Calling pot size bets on the flop with four flushes, heads-up. Calling pot raises, pre-flop with hands that can only beat complete bluffs. When they work they are golden, when they miss they can crater you. My bust: Raised to open the pot in the SB with AdTd. Got called by 98o (maybe suited, doesn't really matter) in the BB. 240 in the pot. Flop comes with 98x rainbow. BB catches two pair on the flop, bets 40 into a check from me. I have two overs and a backdoor flush draw and call getting 7:1 (I think it 8 outs with 3 overcards and 2 for the backdoor flush). I catch an A on the turn and move in for 510, get called and am out when I don't improve. Good trap on my opponent's part on the flop. Bad call pre-flop on my opponent's part, IMO. He has a weak hand and is calling a pot size bet in the hope of catching. Good outcome, bad call, IMHO. Like I said, he trapped well on the flop he got. I think, he called too much with too little pre-flop in the hope that I was bluffing a weak hand or that he would catch well. That being said, tournaments are like that. On the whole, people would respect a pot raise from me pre-flop. Not so much from others. There was a lot of limit-type betting from the flop onward allowing opponents to see another card cheaply. Not good big bet poker. I had a good time and look forward to the next one. ED: I was just looking, did the tourney crash? Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, 4 POKER, 17. Jul 2003 19:47 | ||
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| Argh. I'm trying to connect again to UB and the damn connection will not go through. I saw about 2 minutes of it and then my screen went haywire for some reason. I saw TK and Wren and Stdioh but I can't get back in......Help! I'm soooo upset. | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, Paul Stine, 17. Jul 2003 19:49 | ||
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| on 17. Jul 2003 19:47 4 POKER wrote: > Argh. I'm trying to connect again to UB and the damn connection will not go through. > I saw about 2 minutes of it and then my screen went haywire for some reason. I saw TK > and Wren and Stdioh but I can't get back in......Help! I'm soooo upset. Try again, it seems to be working now, but it still seems to be taking a long time to connect. Wait, I take that back. Now, I can't get authenticated, again. Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, 4 POKER, 17. Jul 2003 20:24 | ||
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| I got it! Thanks Paul. | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, stdioh, 17. Jul 2003 19:54 | ||
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| I think that defending the BB from a SB raise with 89 off is not unreasonable. Certainly with 89s it is a good call. | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, Paul Stine, 17. Jul 2003 20:17 | ||
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| on 17. Jul 2003 19:54 stdioh wrote: > I think that defending the BB from a SB raise with 89 off is not unreasonable. > Certainly with 89s it is a good call. Against a pot raise open? I'd like to hear your thoughts on this. I think you are generally giving up too much. I suppose that it depends on your estimation of your opponent. Would you call more against a stronger or weaker player in the SB? I think this is a good topic for discussion. I tend to lay the BB down more often than not in this case. I figure that if I am laying down to a bluff I haven't lost much and if my opponent has a strong hand I am correctly folding. I figure that in this case, holding 98, I am probably facing at least one overcard and so am anywhere from a small to huge dog. Why get involved here? I can make a play later to recoup my blinds if the SB's behavior continues. Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, TKarrde, 17. Jul 2003 21:10 | ||
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| Yeah, it was probably a bad call. But I had been playing so tight I thought I would give it a try. Was actually hoping the flop hit rags and would bet into it hoping you had overcards. Still am not sure why I called it. It isn't something I do often. TKarrde "The next best thing to playing and winning, is playing and whining." | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, Big_Slick, 17. Jul 2003 21:11 | ||
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| Maybe your opponent thought you were trying to bully him for the blind money. A lot of players defend their blinds unless they have total junk. | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, noiseboy, 18. Jul 2003 08:35 | ||
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| I think it also depends on what percentage of the opponents stack the call was. If a pot size bet was only 5% or less of their stack, and if your money was fairly deep, it makes sense to call because if you hit, the implied odds are there to win a big pot. | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, stdioh, 18. Jul 2003 12:55 | ||
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| If your stack size is large then it isn't so bad. You're heads up so all of a sudden hitting one pair with your 89 isn't such a bad thing. I'm not saying that it is a *great* hand to play there, but I don't consider it something that you always have to fold either. | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, beigs, 18. Jul 2003 08:15 | ||
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| I have to thank everyone for this learning experience. It was very, very different from any other tournament I've entered, mainly because we all knew that we had to respect everyone else at the table. There were no crazies, nothing that would make my head hurt trying to figure out "Why the hell did he do that?" The table Paul Stine and I were at was extremely tight. The tightest I'd ever seen before. It allowed Chasepoker to abuse me (see newscast.) I felt I played pretty well except for two hands. One, I can't remember the details unfortunately, was when I kept betting into and calling someone I knew had a better hand. It cut my stack in half and crippled me. The other was when I went all in UTG with ATo and ran up against fulltiltboogie's AJ. I wasn't sure if I should go in there, especially with a marginal hand but I only had enough to last another orbit. I'll do better next time, when I have more NL experience under my belt. Thanks again, all. Beigs | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, Mike812, 18. Jul 2003 09:17 | ||
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| Beigs, I would have to agree with you. Banter on UB (Chasepoker on UPF) was stealing blinds all night, and it was the tightest table I ever played at which is a good thing if you are stealing blinds but very risky at that. I was watching the other table, and they saw almost every other flop. Whereas our table saw a flop maybe 1 out of 7 . btw, do you remember going over the top of me in the first 10 mins? I just HAVE to know, were you bluffing or just trying to bully me around the table? Mike www.pokeranon.com | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, beigs, 18. Jul 2003 09:34 | ||
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| Was that the hand that TK was wondering if I had an over pair or not? on 18. Jul 2003 09:17 Mike812 wrote: > Beigs, > > I would have to agree with you. Banter on UB (Chasepoker on UPF) was stealing blinds all > night, and it was the tightest table I ever played at which is a good thing if you are > stealing blinds but very risky at that. I was watching the other table, and they saw > almost every other flop. Whereas our table saw a flop maybe 1 out of 7 . > > btw, do you remember going over the top of me in the first 10 mins? I just HAVE to know, > were you bluffing or just trying to bully me around the table? > > Mike > > www.pokeranon.com | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, TKarrde, 18. Jul 2003 10:11 | ||
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| i can find out in the hand history!! Be right back! TKarrde "The next best thing to playing and winning, is playing and losing." | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, TKarrde, 18. Jul 2003 10:55 | ||
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| I think this is it: - Hand #255519-17 at UPF-2 (No Limit tournament Hold'em) - Powered by UltimateBet - Started at 17/Jul/03 21:43:30 - TKarrde is at seat 0 with 1210. - przytula is at seat 1 with 860. - AGsweep is at seat 2 with 680. - noiseboy is at seat 3 with 940. - mike812 is at seat 4 with 1035. - banter is at seat 5 with 1120. - beigs is at seat 6 with 1080. - Aggie83 is at seat 7 with 975. - phillyace is at seat 9 with 1100. - The button is moved to seat 1. - The button is at seat 1. - - AGsweep posts the small blind of 10. - noiseboy posts the big blind of 20. - TKarrde, at seat 0, is in this hand. - przytula, at seat 1, is in this hand. - AGsweep, at seat 2, is in this hand. - noiseboy, at seat 3, is in this hand. - mike812, at seat 4, is in this hand. - banter, at seat 5, is in this hand. - beigs, at seat 6, is in this hand. - Aggie83, at seat 7, is in this hand. - phillyace, at seat 9, is in this hand. - - AGsweep is dealt: - noiseboy is dealt: - mike812 is dealt: - banter is dealt: - beigs is dealt: - Aggie83 is dealt: - phillyace is dealt: 4c TKarrde is dealt: - przytula is dealt: - AGsweep is dealt: - noiseboy is dealt: - mike812 is dealt: - banter is dealt: - beigs is dealt: - Aggie83 is dealt: - phillyace is dealt: 8s TKarrde is dealt: - przytula is dealt: - - Pre-flop: - mike812 calls. - banter folds. - beigs raises to 40. - Aggie83 says "but I had about 18 beers before the tourney". - Aggie83 folds. - phillyace folds. - TKarrde folds. - przytula folds. - AGsweep folds. - noiseboy folds. - mike812 calls. - - flop card: Jc - flop card: Th - flop card: Qc - Flop (board: Jc Th Qc): - mike812 bets 20. - przytula says "man... ifold a-k". - beigs calls. - - turn card: 2c - Turn (board: Jc Th Qc 2c): - mike812 bets 50. - banter says "i folded QQ". - Wonder89 has disconnected, is dropped. - beigs calls. - - river card: 5h - River (board: Jc Th Qc 2c 5h): - mike812 bets 75. - beigs raises to 475. - banter says "hat hat hat". - Wren (obs) says "ok so i'm not the only one who's a bit tipsy :)". - TKarrde says "KNOCK HIM OUT". - mike812 folds, showing As Tc. - beigs is returned 400 (uncalled). - - Hand evaluation for beigs (Kc Ac Jc Qc 2c) TKarrde "The next best thing to playing and winning, is playing and losing." | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, MozMan, 18. Jul 2003 11:01 | ||
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| Sweet! beigs almost drew the Royal! Though, the Tc was already in play, so it would never have happened. Sounds like it was a good laydown to me. :) -Moz "May your chips never fall from a cow." | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, Mike812, 18. Jul 2003 11:05 | ||
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| Yep that is it! Man, Im so glad I mucked that. I thought Beigs was trying to be a bully, phew Mike www.pokeranon.com | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, beigs, 18. Jul 2003 12:13 | ||
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| That wasn't the hand I was thinking of. There was a hand where I made an abnormally large bet with a four flush. Whoever I was in with thought a good long while before mucking. TK put me on a pocket pair. I believe Mike812 correctly put me on the four flush. I would have told you guys then, but that wouldn't be any fun! I'll have to check the hand histories and get back to you on that. on 18. Jul 2003 11:05 Mike812 wrote: > Yep that is it! Man, Im so glad I mucked that. I thought Beigs was trying to be a bully, phew > > Mike > > www.pokeranon.com | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, noiseboy, 18. Jul 2003 08:46 | ||
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| Yeah, I think I drew out TKarrde calling with a four flush. Not something I usually do, often I will fold either fold or raise on the come, depending on how strong/weak I think the opponent is. In my defense, I should say that he was in late position and that I thought he might be trying to steal. Since the bets were fairly small, compared to my stack, I just figured there was a chance he was bluffing with something like two overcards, plus a chance I might make my draw. He could have easily lost me with a larger bet on the turn, but maybe he wasn't confident enough in his holding. I didn't see what he had at the end, but when he bet the turn, I realized he definitely wasn't bluffing at that point, but decided to call anyway. | ||
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| Re: UB tourney, my assessment, noiseboy, 18. Jul 2003 09:51 | ||
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| I would agree with the statement you made about people making small bets and letting people in to draw them out. There were also several times where people telegraphed their marginal hands by small bets, and I ended up bluff-raising them off the hand with stuff like a open ended st8 draw. | ||
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