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Server Time: 9/7/2008 7:16:58 PM PACIFIC |
 What would you do?, shorn, 17. Jul 2003 05:12 | ||
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| 15/30 game at Party last night. I just sat down and posted after the button passed, so I had watched exactly two hands from this table and didn't recognize 7 of the other 9 names there. So, long story short, I have no real reads on my opponents yet. Here goes: I get 43h, three callers to me, I check, button calls, SB completes, BB checks and we take the flop 7-handed ($85 in the pot). Flop comes 256 rainbow giving me the str8. Two checks, the guy to my right bets out. I decide to flat call with the idea of raising the turn hoping for an overcard (AK or Q) to give someone top pair (I think this is my first mistake...I should most likely raise here and make other draws pay since the pot is laying decent odds for gut-shots up/downs). Button calls, both blinds fold and 1 of the early limpers calls. So, we are 4-handed now with $145 in the pot. Well, I get an overcard on the turn, but it sucks. Offsuit 7 making the board 2567. First limper checks, guy to my right bets, I raise, button 3-bets, 1st limper folds and guy to my right calls. $30 to me. There is now $355 in the pot. I think that there is a decent chance that my hand is still good here even though 98 beats me, so I decide to call (perhaps my second mistake...would anyone else have capped here?). River card sucks even worse, a 6 making the final board 25676 with no flush possible. Guy to my right bets out again, so it is $30 to me $415 in the pot. Since the pot is so large (and I don't want to make a 14 BB mistake), I call with this as the over-riding factor. Now the button raises and the guy to my right 3-bets! So it is back to me to call $60 (and potentially $90 with a decent chance of a cap by the button) with $565 in the pot. I have the stupid end of the str8 and now a boat is also possible. With one opponent, I think this is a no-brainer call, but with two, I believe my effective odds are $565 to $90 or roughly 6 to 1. I decide my hand isn't going to be good more than 17% of the time (potentially another bad error...thoughts here please)so it is not worth $90 more and I fold. The button just calls the three-bet and (uh oh), the guy to my right scoops the $600 pot with A6 for trips. I immediately hurl a long string of invective at my screen... I didn't sleep very well last night going over this one in my head again and again, and I can't decide if I made a prudent fold or not here. The pot was huge, but with two players showing that much aggression and me in the middle with a good but not great hand anymore, what is the right play? I realize that I made at least 1 mistake earlier in the hand (if not two or three), but I am most concerned with my river play here as I think I have identified the other potential errors for correction. Would anyone else here have called? Any thoughts are welcome as I am still reeling this morning. Thanks, Steve | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, 4 POKER, 17. Jul 2003 05:45 | ||
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| Hey Steve, I would have called the last bets. I would be more likely to put the raiser on a big overpair. I know it seems like a tough call but without knowing any of these players, and with the pot as big as it was (oh, I hate to re-hash this, I really do), I think you should have called. There have been sooo many times when a player/s on-line will make ridiculous bets and raises, (OR< they actually feel that their pocket pair is good here, too), and more times than not I feel, that when I see what actually wins on the river?....I'm dumbfounded! I would have played it really fast on the flop, but you know you should have as well. Ya know, when you play on-line poker, (especially in those juicy games), there's no need to slowplay a made straight (especially a real low one), because they will call all bets anyway alot of the times just to try and hit an overpair or a runner, runner flush. Know what I mean? Sorry this hand got you down......hang in there. Dave | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, shorn, 17. Jul 2003 05:57 | ||
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| Dave- Thanks for confirming for me what I suspected to be true. I guess I have this habit of "believing" that my hand is second or third best when players raise and re-raise the river. But, I have got to start thinking that since the pot is so big that it is worth two bets in LT expectation to call. One other thing that I have thought of is that regardless of what the guy to my right had, his 3-bet on the river was a great play because it potentially could fold someone like me (with a low str8) off my hand, thereby increasing his odds of winning the pot heads up. In the heat of the moment, I forgot that principle and it cost me big. Thanks for your encouragement. I have a long way to go to be consistent at this game and this hand is a great example of what separates players like you (pro's) from wanna be's like me. Steve | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, 4 POKER, 17. Jul 2003 06:10 | ||
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| Hey Steve, I have layed down winners MANY times, trust me I have. But this on-line poker stuff is ridiculous sometimes and I feel that it's just worth it too pay it off. And your right, that raise by the player who held trip sixes was a good play, but I bet he didn't even realize it, I really don't. YOU did, but he probably just though his hand was good. And for that example alone is why the better players (like yourself) tend to give too much credit to their opponents when it is often not warranted. Do you know how many times I have wanted to take my computer and fling it out the window because I thought that the last card hurt me and now I'm going to lose a really big pot?......Many, many times.....but I didn't lose! (LOL).....they were just making a move or they thought they had the best of it when actually, they were drawing dead. I just don't give that much credit for most of the on-line players, especially the ones that I have played with at Party. Omaha is different, you know exactly what is out there, but in hold-em?....they don't even have a clue much of the time. Keep in mind, Steve...you have experience and are probably head and shoulders over most of the players you encounter, so when they make those "moves" sometimes, it's really because they think their own hand is good. I'm just trying to tell you that you shouldn't expect them to play and to think like you do because they are not at that level yet. Dave | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, shorn, 17. Jul 2003 06:17 | ||
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| 4P- Thanks a lot. You are right that I didn't take into account the fact that it was online and the games have been notoriously fishy. My concern was that since this was my first hand, I really didn't know the two folks that were in it with me and when I showed strength on the turn, they came back at me. Also, with both the turn and rivr cards being bad, I got caught up into actually thinking I was against 98 AND 76. I actually violated one of my standard rules on the river: if it takes two cards to beat you and the pot is big, you usually should call. When it takes one card to beat you (say a 4 flush on the board), it is safer to fold. I appreciate and completely respect your opinion. I realize that we all make mistakes from time to time. This one was a killer though as I will likely spend the next 20 hours of solid play making up for it. Ugh... Steve | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, 4 POKER, 17. Jul 2003 07:24 | ||
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| on 17. Jul 2003 06:17 shorn wrote: > 4P- > > Thanks a lot. You are right that I didn't take into account the fact that it was online and the > games have been notoriously fishy. My concern was that since this was my first hand, I really > didn't know the two folks that were in it with me and when I showed strength on the turn, they came > back at me. Also, with both the turn and rivr cards being bad, I got caught up into actually > thinking I was against 98 AND 76. I actually violated one of my standard rules on the river: if it > takes two cards to beat you and the pot is big, you usually should call. When it takes one card to > beat you (say a 4 flush on the board), it is safer to fold. > > I appreciate and completely respect your opinion. I realize that we all make mistakes from time to > time. This one was a killer though as I will likely spend the next 20 hours of solid play making up > for it. Ugh... > > Steve I feel your pain, believe me. But you'll get it back.....remember, it's just one session of many in your poker life. No worries and "thanks" to you as well for always sharing your experiences with such an honest and intelligent approach. Take care. Dave | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, sburne, 17. Jul 2003 07:50 | ||
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| I actually violated one of my standard rules on the river: if it > > takes two cards to beat you and the pot is big, you usually should call. When it takes one card to > > beat you (say a 4 flush on the board), it is safer to fold. Where were you last night. I got blindsided twice holding A flushes by AAAJJ. Could have saved a lot of money. What was sad was I thought it couldnt happen to me twice in one night. | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, shorn, 17. Jul 2003 08:07 | ||
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| Hey, I didn't say it always works but it has in the past been a good rule. Sorry for your misfortune. | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, Easy E, 17. Jul 2003 08:31 | ||
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| you shouldn't have needed shorn's rule to figure THAT out- unless I'm reading this wrong, any J or A beats your flush | ||
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| Re: to do? shorn and 4 Poker, Easy E, 17. Jul 2003 07:55 | ||
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| I would have folded here myself, not knowing the players- although it sounds as if, given 4 POKER's comments, that folding what SHOULD be a beaten hand is evidently not a good strategy. "15/30 game at Party last night. I just sat down and posted after the button passed, so I had watched exactly two hands from this table and didn't recognize 7 of the other 9 names there. So, long story short, I have no real reads on my opponents yet. Here goes: I get 43h, three callers to me, I check, button calls, SB completes, BB checks and we take the flop 7-handed ($85 in the pot). Flop comes 256 rainbow giving me the str8. Two checks, the guy to my right bets out. I decide to flat call with the idea of raising the turn hoping for an overcard (AK or Q) to give someone top pair (I think this is my first mistake...I should most likely raise here and make other draws pay since the pot is laying decent odds for gut-shots up/downs)." *** You already suspect this, but how many people put you on the nut flop when you're a new poster? Raise that puppy! ** By the way, did you think about what Guy Right (GR) had, when he bet out? Could that have played into your analysis later? Probably not, being unknown to you... " Button calls, both blinds fold and 1 of the early limpers calls. So, we are 4-handed now with $145 in the pot. " "Well, I get an overcard on the turn, but it sucks. Offsuit 7 making the board 2567. First limper checks, guy to my right bets, I raise, button 3-bets, 1st limper folds and guy to my right calls." *** Any guess as to what an unknown player bets with, then cold-calls 2 (GR)? Does that make a set more or less likely here? What about the button- with a rainbow board, does he re-raise with a set or nut straight? Could he have called with a 98 on the flop (probably)? I don't know how online generally plays, so I can't hazard a guess here. " $30 to me. There is now $355 in the pot. I think that there is a decent chance that my hand is still good here even though 98 beats me, so I decide to call (perhaps my second mistake...would anyone else have capped here?). " ** My first instinct would be to cap, if only to make sure that no one is messing around. Whether that would have helped in the end when the board paired.... I don't know. "River card sucks even worse, a 6 making the final board 25676 with no flush possible. Guy to my right bets out again, so it is $30 to me $415 in the pot." ** Okay, wouldn't a house go for a check-raise here on the button? If everyone is aggressive enough that betting out is better... then doesn't that possibly mean the other hands potentially AREN'T the nuts out there? " Since the pot is so large (and I don't want to make a 14 BB mistake), I call with this as the over-riding factor." ** If you were deciding that you couldn't call a raise or two behind you, then maybe this call here is bad? Tough laydown, especially early on, but bad? " Now the button raises and the guy to my right 3-bets! So it is back to me to call $60 (and potentially $90 with a decent chance of a cap by the button) with $565 in the pot. I have the stupid end of the str8 and now a boat is also possible. With one opponent, i think this is a no-brainer call, but with two, I believe my effective odds are $565 to $90 or roughly 6 to 1. I decide my hand isn't going to be good more than 17% of the time (potentially another bad error...thoughts here please)so it is not worth $90 more and I fold. " ** Here's the 17 minute remainder you needed ;) Most importantly, what did THEY read YOU for? You don't raise the flop, and if you have the nut straight, you raised a rainbow turn with caller behind.... so they might think you DON'T have the straight? But if so, unless you're an idiot, they have to at least think you have potential for a house on the river... if they are thinking about it- and they bet/raised into you anyway. You didn't cap the turn- does that reinforce the two pair idea in their minds, rather than a straight or set? *** Okay- their hands. Button- calls preflop in big field, doesn't raise. Odds are no big pairs or big suited connectors (and maybe not middle suited connectors?). Trips should have raised the flop, with the connected cards out there, shouldn't they? No way he has 74 (or, I wouldn't put him on it), 87 isn't a raising hand on the river... 98? Two pair? tough read... GR- No raise preflop. Bets the flop, bets turn and cold-calls two out of position. Bets and then reraises, on the river, the turn reraiser that he cold-called.... I couldn't have put him on trip 6's here. Hence, I fold (incorrectly as it turns out) The ONLY reason to call- if online, respect or thought is SO non-existant that online players try to run over every new player, especially if they are not raising early. Shorn, don't beat yourself up over this one- just carefully note their names and get them later. Without knowing them at all, I can't see calling 2 more cold here on the end. One conclusion- if you could stand all of the action, this should have been a GREAT game to stay in, with all of the pushing of (what I assume was) two pair and undersets into a straight board... 4 POKER, care to comment? If you're saying that it's a general rule to call in these types of situations, JUST because the ratio of crazy idiots online is so high.... it's a good thing that i don't play online. This sounds worse than a low-limit game. However, shorn's "need two card" rule sounds like a good one- not sure if it's applicable in b&m, but I'll have to start paying attention to that possibility. | ||
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| Re: to do? shorn and 4 Poker, shorn, 17. Jul 2003 08:02 | ||
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| Easy- This was a GREAT analysis and deeper than I had thought about it. Since I just sat down, it would have been hard for them to put me on anything. But, I do have their names to exploit later. The rest of the session for me was touch and go and I ended up down pretty much what I contributed to this pot ($130). So, all in all not terrible as in my younger days I easily could have tilted another $1000. IT was a great game and I imagine the 15/30 at Party will remain so for a while. Even with all this though, I thinbk my rule and the size of the pot should have won me over, but with only 20 seconds to decide and not knowing the players, I chose to save $60 (which cost me $600). Live and learn... Thanks again. Steve | ||
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| Re: to do? shorn and 4 Poker, Easy E, 17. Jul 2003 08:29 | ||
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| what was your problem? It only took ME 15 seconds to put all of that together! Maybe you'd better take up knitting..... ;) Early on, without the nut straight, I can't see anyone making that call.... except for your 2-card rule and 4 POKER's general theory, that is.... Gotta love poker- it's never easy! (thought it should be for moi, you would think!) | ||
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| Re: to do? shorn and 4 Poker, shorn, 17. Jul 2003 08:33 | ||
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| Knitting or crossword puzzles maybe. If it only took you 15 seconds to put that together, I thank God that you don't play online!! I think the reason I now believe it was a call was the two card rule COMBINED with the size of the pot and the fact that the games have been so fisahy lately (although only seeing two hands prior to this one, i couldn't know that about this table/playrs yet). One of those by itself probably doesn't warrant it. | ||
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| Re: to do? shorn and 4 Poker, 4 POKER, 17. Jul 2003 08:41 | ||
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| To Easy E, I will comment but please.....don't bite my head off ok? (Laugh)! First of all, I don't use the word idiot when describing a player who is unaware of the game. (those are your words). (Laugh again)! Now.......how are ya? Good I hope. If you haven't experienced playing on-line than when and if you ever do, you will be quite shocked that the calibar of play is much different from the B&M's in which you're used to. I myself prefer to play poker "live" because I'm so much more confident in my reads on my opponents, and that comes from having played with many of them for years and years. My point to shorn was, that because he was most likely playing in a game with mostly inexperienced players, that some of the betting and/or raising that goes on there may not be as justified (if you will), then if you saw the same betting patterns from players who play regularly in a "live" poker room. Yes, there's good and bad players in both elements, but the ratio of bad players is much higher on-line. Do I think you should always pay off on the river? Of course not....but if he was more aggresive on the flop and took control of the hand, he may have been able to not be faced with such aggresion on the river. The player who raised him out of the pot did so because he thought that trip sixes with an Ace kicker was the best hand and IMHO, I really don't think that he was even trying to get shorn to lay his hand down. And when you're not fully knowledgeable of the game and your experience in poker is limited, you will be more apt to make bets, calls, raises etc. without the full understanding as to why. Personally?.....I wouldn't have let up on the flop at all because even if you wanted to suck someone in to calling, if you raise here...they will call you anyway just to try and hit their overpairs. Believe me, this kind of play/thinking happens all the time with on-line poker and I think shorn was basing their raises on being ones that he himself would make if he held a fullhouse or something that could at least beat his lower straight that he had flopped. And that is why I think he let it go, he gave credit to the players because he wasn't in the game long enough to get a proper read on them. Now who's to say that the next time that somebody wouldn't be holding a FH? Anythings possible, but given the size of the pot and for the fact that he didn't know these players was a reason to pay off the last two bets. The pot was huge! That's why it is so important to play really solid poker (even more so, on-line) because you get so many hands dealt to you and with all the fishy games that you'll be in....there would be no reason to enter a pot without having a good hand. Players make so many moves and incorrect betting that you'll be experiencing too many swings of your own if your own starting hands are not strong enough to take the heat. I hope that made sense! (LOL). And another thing....the tilt factor is more to happen on-line, as well, even for the good players because you will see some pretty bad beats all due to players who are constantly sucking out on you because they just don't get it, period. Try some on-line poker for yourself and let me know what you think. But be prepared..............! (I could only imagine the choice words you would be using then )! I've used a few myself..........But there is money to be made if you approach it the right way. I play mostly lower limit when I play on-line (once in awhile I'll play higher), but I still would much rather play "real poker" in the B&M's....there's more stability there for me and I need to see real faces, too! 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, Tlaserx, 17. Jul 2003 07:51 | ||
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| How late at night was it? and what was the apparent bankroll of the two aggressive players? I think what happens is that alot of people sit at home and drink and start playing about 8:00 est. Then, later in the evening. 1:00- 3:00 am, the more drunk they are, especially if they are loosing bad, they will jump up to the bigger tables to try to make their money back. That leaves them outmatched in a game they shouldn't be in, and dang it if it doesn't leave them drawing out on me when they should be folding. I think every once in a while, it works for them even though if they keep doing it, they will be big loosers.. "I don't care if you're a world champion or not, I bet the house" What? I've only got queens..! | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, shorn, 17. Jul 2003 08:04 | ||
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| It was 6 PM and they both had "Undisclosed" locations, so I couldn't discern if they were from Europe or Asia where it might have been late. | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, Big_Slick, 17. Jul 2003 08:01 | ||
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| Hey Shorn, I would have probably folded as well. I can't believe there was this much action at a 15/30 game with a possible boat and a possible straight on the board. Sounds like a nickel-quarter game on Friday nights. I don't really know what to say because I know you must be sick. Hang in there. | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, shorn, 17. Jul 2003 08:06 | ||
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| Thanks Slick. I was really sick last night because that was a nice chunk of change. But, I am beginning to get over it and 4P is right...this game will be there tonight and I can make it up at some point. The action right now is unreal without a doubt and often I will see the same players that I beat regularly at 5/10 online sitting at 15/30, so it isn't a stretch for me to sit either. I shouldn't complain too much though. Despite this pot, I am still up well over $1500 in the last 5 hours of play or so. | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, Easy E, 17. Jul 2003 08:32 | ||
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| ". Despite this pot, I am still up well over $1500 in the last 5 hours of play or so" WHAT?!?!?! and you're bitching about a measly $130? You greedy bastard you... GET OUT OF HERE! | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, shorn, 17. Jul 2003 08:36 | ||
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| LOL. No I am bitching because I should be up $2230!!!! And yes, I am a greedy bastard!! | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, 4 POKER, 17. Jul 2003 08:51 | ||
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| $130?........no, the pot was $600 and if he called it all would have been his. (sorry shorn, don't read this....you'll get sick again). | ||
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| hee hee- way to rub it in, 4P!, Easy E, 17. Jul 2003 12:11 | ||
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| and here I was trying to make him feel better... | ||
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| Re: hee hee- way to rub it in, 4P!, shorn, 17. Jul 2003 12:17 | ||
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| Thanks Easy...you are a real sport. :( | ||
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| Re: hee hee- way to rub it in, 4P!, 4 POKER, 17. Jul 2003 16:05 | ||
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| ......Yeah, he's a real sport:( | ||
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| Re: hey, why is EASY catching the blame?, Easy E, 18. Jul 2003 03:25 | ||
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| very slick, 4 POKER, passing the blame off onto me.... | ||
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| Re: hey, why is EASY catching the blame?, 4 POKER, 19. Jul 2003 07:05 | ||
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| on 18. Jul 2003 03:25 Easy E wrote: > very slick, 4 POKER, passing the blame off onto me.... Uh...I don't think so Easy E. We BOTH called you a "real sport,".... remember???? (LOL)! You just love being sarcastic and THAT'S why you got the response that you got!:( Nice try though. | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, Wren, 17. Jul 2003 09:58 | ||
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| Hey Steve, That sucks, but if I were you I would have tried to regroup quickly and then rejoice the fact that you found such a freakin' juicy $15-30 game!! I think your biggest problem in this hand was not knowing about the other players. If you had background knowledge to indicate that the other two players were maniacal, then you would have given their bets/raises less respect and almost certainly would have stayed in there. As it was, however, you assumed that the other players were solid (a good assumption), and played logically from there. So, no, I don't think you necessarily made a bad fold on the river - all signs pointed to you no longer being good. However, this all being said, slowplaying this hand on the flop was probably not a good idea, for two reasons: (1) (and you already stated this), the pot was big, there were a lot of players, and various draws would have either had odds, or almost had odds to draw to higher straights and (2) you didn't know the players, which decreased your ability to be able to play the turn and beyond well if scary cards fell and a big field remained in the hand (and this is just what happened). I, personally, like to play pretty tight & straightforward until I get a good read on my table, win a few pots and start feeling really comfortable and relaxed. Some people, on the other hand, like to play more maniacal so that people "peg" them wrong and then give them less respect later on when they're holding monsters. I think the former strategy's more +EV (and I think Roy Cooke mentioned something about this as well in one of his articles). In any case, yeah, that hand sucked, and folding the winner in a big pot HURTS, but all you can do is learn what you can from the hand and move on. on 17. Jul 2003 05:12 shorn wrote: > 15/30 game at Party last night. I just sat down and posted after the button > passed, so I had watched exactly two hands from this table and didn't recognize > 7 of the other 9 names there. So, long story short, I have no real reads on my > opponents yet. Here goes: > > I get 43h, three callers to me, I check, button calls, SB completes, BB checks > and we take the flop 7-handed ($85 in the pot). Flop comes 256 rainbow giving > me the str8. Two checks, the guy to my right bets out. I decide to flat call > with the idea of raising the turn hoping for an overcard (AK or Q) to give > someone top pair (I think this is my first mistake...I should most likely raise > here and make other draws pay since the pot is laying decent odds for gut-shots > up/downs). Button calls, both blinds fold and 1 of the early limpers calls. > So, we are 4-handed now with $145 in the pot. > > Well, I get an overcard on the turn, but it sucks. Offsuit 7 making the board > 2567. First limper checks, guy to my right bets, I raise, button 3-bets, 1st > limper folds and guy to my right calls. $30 to me. There is now $355 in the > pot. I think that there is a decent chance that my hand is still good here even > though 98 beats me, so I decide to call (perhaps my second mistake...would > anyone else have capped here?). > > River card sucks even worse, a 6 making the final board 25676 with no flush > possible. Guy to my right bets out again, so it is $30 to me $415 in the pot. > Since the pot is so large (and I don't want to make a 14 BB mistake), I call > with this as the over-riding factor. Now the button raises and the guy to my > right 3-bets! So it is back to me to call $60 (and potentially $90 with a > decent chance of a cap by the button) with $565 in the pot. I have the stupid > end of the str8 and now a boat is also possible. With one opponent, I think > this is a no-brainer call, but with two, I believe my effective odds are $565 to > $90 or roughly 6 to 1. I decide my hand isn't going to be good more than 17% of > the time (potentially another bad error...thoughts here please)so it is not > worth $90 more and I fold. The button just calls the three-bet and (uh oh), the > guy to my right scoops the $600 pot with A6 for trips. I immediately hurl a > long string of invective at my screen... > > I didn't sleep very well last night going over this one in my head again and > again, and I can't decide if I made a prudent fold or not here. The pot was > huge, but with two players showing that much aggression and me in the middle > with a good but not great hand anymore, what is the right play? I realize that > I made at least 1 mistake earlier in the hand (if not two or three), but I am > most concerned with my river play here as I think I have identified the other > potential errors for correction. > > Would anyone else here have called? Any thoughts are welcome as I am still > reeling this morning. > > Thanks, > > Steve | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, shorn, 17. Jul 2003 11:14 | ||
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| on 17. Jul 2003 09:58 Wren wrote: (2) you didn't know the players, which decreased > your ability to be able to play the turn and beyond well if scary cards fell and a > big field remained in the hand (and this is just what happened). > Thanks Wren. The above point is a gem and even another reason to be flop aggressive. It allows me to play the rest of the hand without guessing as much when scary cards do come. Great point. Steve | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, LJH, 17. Jul 2003 13:50 | ||
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| FIRST, YOU SHOULD HAVE RAISED EARLY TO PROTECT YOUR STRAIT. ON THE RIVER WITH SUCH A BIG POT YOU HAD TO CALL. LJH | ||
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| Re: What would you do?, Barry T, 17. Jul 2003 15:47 | ||
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| Hi. Lots of good replies. It seems clear you should have raised the flop. In general, poker players make way too much of waiting for the turn to raise. Among other reasons, lots of players like to put in excessive action on the cheap street with draws, overpairs, and all kind of other stuf. It might even get capped with you having way the best of it. If you want to slow-play sop=mething like quads, fine (though I still do not recommend it). But a small straight, like a small set, wants to put in lots of action right now. On the turn, you did a thing we call "Monsters Under the Bed" (MUB) [introduced I think by Lee Jones]. Yes indeed, there is ONE hand (two cards) that might beat you. OK. If someone has it, then they get to win more of your money. But everyone else is drawing to beat you, and you need to charge them. Raise again when you get the chance. You can be up against anything from a set to two pair to a hand like 78 which has made top pair and a straight draw,. There are tons of hands they might have. Go ahead and raise. On the river, I would definitely have called, but I have have seen this before. Yes, you might be beat, but some opponents get very excited when they make trips and do not even bother to think they may not be good. These people "play with their head down," just looking at what they have - almost as if they were playing video poker. The extra bets might go down the drain, but you have a five-card hand, and it is hard to make those. It is a difficult call, I know, but since you can think of hands they might have that you can beat and the pot is large, you need to call. BarryT | ||
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