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Server Time: 3/14/2010 6:15:25 PM PACIFIC |
 for Mike Caro, David O'Connor, 15. Jul 2003 00:06 | ||
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| Hey Mike! I had a great time at the cardplayer conference at the orleans, and it was greeat meeting you. At one point, we began talking about how computers are going to find out the real value of hands in hold em, at least, that is what i thought was being said, lol. If this is the case, how far off are the hand values now, like the ones in sklansky's book? also, when are we going to see these hand values? i wasnt aware that we had these values possibly slightly wrong, or maybe i just misunderstood. Thanx Mike!-Dave | ||
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| Re: for Mike Caro, TKarrde, 15. Jul 2003 10:22 | ||
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| Just imagine a program that could be feed game info like position, raises, stacks, folds, shown cards, etc. and be able to determine playing styles and trends and adjust starting hands according and recommend moves such as chekc, bet, raise, reraise, and fold? You already got poker tracker. What happens when someone develops something like that. How would it affect online poker? TKarrde "The next best thing to playing and winning, is playing and losing." | ||
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| Re: for Mike Caro, pt_Gatsby, 15. Jul 2003 12:31 | ||
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| I believe there have been many attempts. At least, there is a huge AI/Neural networking attempt to overcome limited information games. To the best of my knowledge, it cannot surpass a professional no limit player, but tends to crush limit players. The problem is in quantifying changing styles in a game that has open choices (like raises in NL). A human adapts and creates randomness, which the computer cannot read... or, to put it another way... the computer grows increasingly entrenched in what it has read, allowing the human to 'over' guess what the computer's response would be. That allows the human player to make big plays and know when the computer would be likely to do so. The introduction of randomness in computers takes away from the number crunching ability and tends to fail horrifically in the long run. Far as I know, anyway! | ||
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| Re: for Mike Caro, stdioh, 15. Jul 2003 11:12 | ||
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| The problem with hand values is that they are not static. For example, AA is a lot more valuable in an agressive game where you are able to push people off of draws to silly hands than in a game where 8 players call you down to the river and nobody ever raises. Likewise, hands like 7s8s are wonderful in a loose passive game. Since the value of each hand varies depending on the humans who are playing in the game, the position you are in relative to the puck, but also relative to each unique player in the game, etc. it is impossible to really give a value to each hand. All you can really do is give comparative values that will be more or less accurate in typical games. That has already been worked and fine tuned by the experts. And since there is no poker bot even close to the ability of the best humans, I think it will be a long time before computers start teaching humans to play poker. | ||
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