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Server Time: 11/22/2008 12:44:56 AM PACIFIC |
 I think this was correct., mongi, 14. Jul 2003 23:56 | ||
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| I was playing in a fairly loose somewhat passive 4-8 holdem game. I raise from middle position with pocket Queens after two people limp in. Three people cold call my raise as well as the small blind. The flop comes 5 2 5 rainbow.It gets checked to me and I bet; one guy to the left of me calls, the small blind raises. I reraised the guy to my left folds the small blind raises again and I call. The Jack of spades hits the turn (board is still a rainbow). He bets; I fold. Here is my reasoning. first a little backround on the player involved. He was a solid player and usually showed down a good hand. He was very deceptive preflop, he could just as easily be raising with pocket aces or 97suited. He knows I am a solid player. Three times during this session I picked off semibluff attempts against me from other players so I was pretty sure he knew I wasn't a pushover. since there were know draws I put him on either an overpair or trip fives. If he had pocket AA KK or JJ or trip fives I was down to just two outs. When I reraised him he had to know I had a big pocket pair yet he still raised me back and then bet the turn. He could have been bluffing but you just don't typically see this type of play at the low levels (Check-raise two players, then reraise). He could have had just a medium sized overpair but I think given this board he would have bet out on the flop. I believe calling his reraise on the flop was correct considering I was getting 22-1 to catch a queen on the turn and the slight possibility I was still ahead. When he bet the turn I was getting only 12-1 and pretty convinced he had a five. What do you think? | ||
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| Re: I think this was correct., Allyc, 15. Jul 2003 00:09 | ||
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| i would guess the small blind called with A 5 suited. | ||
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| Re: I think this was correct., mongi, 15. Jul 2003 00:19 | ||
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| A-5 suited is what I put him on although it could have been a suited connector with this guy. He loved the suited cards. | ||
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| Re: I think this was correct., 4 POKER, 15. Jul 2003 04:36 | ||
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| When playing a hand, you should be putting your opponent on a number of hands that they will be likely to play. In this situation your opponent could have easily had a medium pair up to J-J and would have played it the same way. Yes, some players would rather take the lead with these types of holdings, but there will be times when a player will use the check-raise play as well, even with a low pairing board of 5-5-2. But if you honestly thought that he was holding a 5 and did not put him on any other possible holdings, then your fold on the turn was correct. Keep in mind though, solid players make moves too....and sometimes *more so* when they're up against another solid opponent. Just don't underestimate what your opponents are capable of doing though....even at the lower limits. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: I think this was correct., shorn, 15. Jul 2003 05:29 | ||
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| I don't think I would have layed the hand down when you did. Yes, you could be behind with his most likely holdings being 5x or JJ. But, as 4P points out, he could have 66-TT too and you could be in the lead. The real question is were you able to raise again on the flop when you just called? If so, I probably would have gone 5-bets to see what he did and then you can play a bit more accordingly. If not, then I think i would have called to the river unless an A or K hit. The pot is simply too big to fold right away. Another point is that since you said that he knew how you played, would he really call a pre-flop raise with A5s? That sounds strange. Anyway, I would need a scarier board to lay down my queens, but if you felt your read was right then you made the right play. | ||
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| Re: I think this was correct., mongi, 15. Jul 2003 10:39 | ||
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| In response to Shorns comments: he easily could have had A-5 suited, he would raise and call raises with many suited cards, plus by the time it got to him six people would have called. I am not saying I would have called but I am sure he was liking his odds. There is no question that I may have laid down the best hand but poker is a game of odds and in this scenario I felt it was more likely that I was beat than being bluffed out of the pot. Yes I could have raised him again on the flop but I felt I got the message after he made it four bets. I have to admit that on this particular night my reads were dead on. Im starting to trust my instincts more and it has been paying off. Thanks for your response Mongi | ||
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| Re: I think this was correct., shorn, 15. Jul 2003 10:50 | ||
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| OK, then you made the right move. You were there and have more information than I do, so I think trusting your judgement is the better play. I was just going based on the information. Isn't it great when you are having a night where your reads are dead on? I compare that to being in the zone in sports...what a great feeling. | ||
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| Re: I think this was correct., Roy Cooke, 15. Jul 2003 08:28 | ||
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| Hi Mongi Assuming you read the player correctly .....you played the hand right. The correctness of many poker plays comes down to the accuracy of the read you have on your opponent. It is why you must pay attention at the table. Roy Cooke on 14. Jul 2003 23:56 mongi wrote: > I was playing in a fairly loose somewhat passive 4-8 holdem game. I raise from > middle position with pocket Queens after two people limp in. Three people cold > call my raise as well as the small blind. The flop comes 5 2 5 rainbow.It gets > checked to me and I bet; one guy to the left of me calls, the small blind > raises. I reraised the guy to my left folds the small blind raises again and I > call. The Jack of spades hits the turn (board is still a rainbow). He bets; I > fold. > > Here is my reasoning. first a little backround on the player involved. He was a > solid player and usually showed down a good hand. He was very deceptive preflop, > he could just as easily be raising with pocket aces or 97suited. He knows I am a > solid player. Three times during this session I picked off semibluff attempts > against me from other players so I was pretty sure he knew I wasn't a pushover. > since there were know draws I put him on either an overpair or trip fives. If he > had pocket AA KK or JJ or trip fives I was down to just two outs. When I > reraised him he had to know I had a big pocket pair yet he still raised me back > and then bet the turn. He could have been bluffing but you just don't typically > see this type of play at the low levels (Check-raise two players, then reraise). > He could have had just a medium sized overpair but I think given this board he > would have bet out on the flop. I believe calling his reraise on the flop was > correct considering I was getting 22-1 to catch a queen on the turn and the > slight possibility I was still ahead. When he bet the turn I was getting only > 12-1 and pretty convinced he had a five. > > What do you think? | ||
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| Re: I think this was correct., beigs, 15. Jul 2003 08:59 | ||
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| Was he the type of player to call anything out of the small blind, knowing he was already invested? If that's the case, I would certainly put him on a 5. | ||
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