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Server Time: 10/11/2008 12:53:19 PM PACIFIC |
 Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, pokerpromoter, 12. Jul 2003 07:49 | ||
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| Greetings! We are contemplating putting together a $1,000 Buy-In No-Limit Texas Hold 'Em Poker Tournament in Florida at a sponsoring casino. Is there a market for such in that area? Would Players travel from the surrounding states to play? 70% payout - with aggressive promotional marketing to get the word out. Any projections on the # of participants we may attract? Is 400 to 500 Players an extreme #? Any ideas or suggestions? We presently promote Billiard and Bowling Tournaments. Thanks - Tom | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, 4 POKER, 12. Jul 2003 08:12 | ||
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| Hi, Hmmm....... where is there a casino in Florida? I didn't think Florida had any legalized casino's except for the boats that sail out from there. Anyway, if there was such a thing, that would attract way more than 500 people. You would just have to make sure that it wasn't held at a time when the other major tournaments were scheduled to take place, like the WSOP. Tournament players travel all over the country to play, so that would not promote a problem at all. | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, pokerpromoter, 12. Jul 2003 08:26 | ||
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| There are several in Florida - mostly sponsored by an Indian Nation. The ones we are approaching are in Hollywood, FL and Tampa, FL. We are entertaining the $1,000 buy-in to keep it affordable, and at the same time provide a large win for the top 3, and other payouts to be determined. ??? If you were participating in a tourny like this, would you want to be able to re-buy in? Thanks - Tom | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, 4 POKER, 12. Jul 2003 08:35 | ||
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| I think at that fee I wouldn't want there to be any re-buys. If the buy-in was much lower than I would say yes, but at a $1000 entry, I would keep it as is, but that's just MO. There are state regulations though, so of course that would have to coinside with all legalities. But if all were legal, you would get a tremendous turnout. | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, stdioh, 14. Jul 2003 14:03 | ||
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| You might get away with the $300 rake if you made 100% of rebuys go into the prize pool. That is, if you expected about 1 rebuy per player on average then you're really charging an average of $1700 with a $300 squeeze. That 15% is still very high, but I think you could get players. Still, if you were doing that you would be much better off making the tourney $850+150 and then raking the rebuys too. | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, beigs, 12. Jul 2003 08:27 | ||
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| Florida has Indian casinos that have poker rooms but they have a maximum someone is allowed to win on a bet. That's my understanding anyway. The put caps on the pots in the poker rooms. I'm not sure how that would affect a tournament, though. on 12. Jul 2003 08:12 4 POKER wrote: > Hi, > > Hmmm....... where is there a casino in Florida? I didn't think Florida had any > legalized casino's except for the boats that sail out from there. > > Anyway, if there was such a thing, that would attract way more than 500 people. You > would just have to make sure that it wasn't held at a time when the other major > tournaments were scheduled to take place, like the WSOP. Tournament players travel > all over the country to play, so that would not promote a problem at all. > > | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, 4 POKER, 12. Jul 2003 08:30 | ||
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| I didn't know that beigs. Do they offer all games or just poker? | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, beigs, 12. Jul 2003 08:38 | ||
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| I'm pretty sure the casino I went to only had slots and poker. It was relatively small. Downstairs was slots and upstairs they had 15-20 poker tables. I only went the once and never went back when I found out the tables had a $10 maximum pot. If a tournament is legal, I'm sure the turnout would be pretty fantastic, just from the locals alone. on 12. Jul 2003 08:30 4 POKER wrote: > I didn't know that beigs. Do they offer all games or just poker? | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, pokerpromoter, 12. Jul 2003 08:35 | ||
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| My understanding is "Tournaments" are handled differently, since the "buy-in" is limited to a certain amount. 4Poker - actually since the casino is on an indian nation reservation - their laws apply and not state or federal in most instances. I am still conducting research - but, before I spent many man hours, I wanted to seek the opinions of the players. We just started promoting Billiard and Bowling Tournaments, and as we watched ESPN last week (WSOP), it became obvious that Poker has a HUGE following. But - in our initial research - we didn't find to many tournaments in the SouthEast, especially in Florida. I appreciate the comments and we always welcome opinions. Tom | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, 4 POKER, 12. Jul 2003 08:42 | ||
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| If you have one, they will come! Guaranteed! Just look at how some of the major tournaments are paid out so you can get a good idea as to what will be best. Making the tournament top heavy in pay-outs sounds good, but if you don't pay enough spots, you may be less likely to receive the turnout that you were anticipating. It should be something that attracts all players, pros and tourists alike. | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, onlinechamp, 14. Jul 2003 07:37 | ||
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| http://forum.onlinechamppoker.com/ Email me champ@onlinechamppoker.com I am interesed in this I live in Florida! | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, TKarrde, 12. Jul 2003 08:43 | ||
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| 70% payout? Does that mean a 30% house rake? I don't think that will fly. Most house takes are 10-20% for tournaments. TKarrde "The next best thing to playing and winning, is playing and losing." | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, 4 POKER, 12. Jul 2003 08:45 | ||
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| I thought that sounded high to me too. | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, pokerpromoter, 12. Jul 2003 09:07 | ||
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| We have to pay administative costs, advertising and marketing expenses, plus promoters fees - heck, we wouldn't be able to promote these tournaments if as an entity we weren't able to recover our expenses and produce a marginal profit. The Casino would apply "added $$" if we could get 400 to 500 players to the Casino and Hotel for the Tournament. Keep the thoughts coming. Tom | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, pokerpromoter, 12. Jul 2003 09:23 | ||
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| Another ?? For the $1,000 buy-in, and 400 to 500 players, what do you suggest for blinds? What do you suggest for the amount of chips you would receive? Also - An idea we were discussing was to have a "tournament series" in Florida and Misissippi - $1,000 Buy-In with 400 to 500 players in each series, then the top 25% from each series meeting up at a "Championship" for even a larger purse. Any ideas? Tom | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, gary ford, 12. Jul 2003 11:14 | ||
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| on 12. Jul 2003 09:23 pokerpromoter wrote: > Another ?? > > For the $1,000 buy-in, and 400 to 500 players, what do you suggest for blinds? What do you suggest > for the amount of chips you would receive? > > Also - An idea we were discussing was to have a "tournament series" in Florida and Misissippi - > $1,000 Buy-In with 400 to 500 players in each series, then the top 25% from each series meeting up > at a "Championship" for even a larger purse. Any ideas? > > Tom Are you a bowler? What type of bowling tournaments do you promote? scratch or handicap? Does Florida have tournament clubs like ABTand NBA? 500 players creates $ 500,000. Does that mean you need $ 150,000 to advertise, promote and earn a fee? I suggest you joint venture with an indian casino and have them cover your expenses then take a 10% fee as promoter. Your proposal, although a good one, sounds a little like a hustle. | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, TKarrde, 12. Jul 2003 12:26 | ||
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| You should approach this as a business and either: A) Think of it as a venture if you plan to do lots of tournnaments down there. You may need to take a loss on the first couple to get it going. A lot of those costs will pay for themselves in the long run. or B) Look at your cost structure and make changes as approriate. This isn't to say that you can't or won't make money at it with a 30% rake. But if they allow YOU to organize tournaments in FL they will allow others and then you WILL have competition and you WILL need to adjust accordingly. Keep it low and you make it harder for anyone else to get into the action. Good Luck! TKarrde "The next best thing to playing and winning, is playing and losing." | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, Paul Stine, 12. Jul 2003 21:47 | ||
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| on 12. Jul 2003 09:07 pokerpromoter wrote: > We have to pay administative costs, advertising and marketing expenses, plus promoters fees - > heck, we wouldn't be able to promote these tournaments if as an entity we weren't able to > recover our expenses and produce a marginal profit. > > The Casino would apply "added $$" if we could get 400 to 500 players to the Casino and Hotel > for the Tournament. > > Keep the thoughts coming. > > Tom This is why poker tournament tend to be loss leaders for poker rooms, in general. They function to get people in the door to play in the ring games where the house is taking a rake. Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, Roy Cooke, 12. Jul 2003 11:22 | ||
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| Hi Poker is big in Florida...Lots of players...I thinkit would work well Roy Cooke on 12. Jul 2003 07:49 pokerpromoter wrote: > Greetings! > We are contemplating putting together a $1,000 Buy-In No-Limit Texas Hold 'Em > Poker Tournament in Florida at a sponsoring casino. > > Is there a market for such in that area? Would Players travel from the > surrounding states to play? > > 70% payout - with aggressive promotional marketing to get the word out. > > Any projections on the # of participants we may attract? Is 400 to 500 Players > an extreme #? > > Any ideas or suggestions? > > We presently promote Billiard and Bowling Tournaments. > > Thanks - Tom > > | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, Robert Jarvis, 12. Jul 2003 11:35 | ||
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| 30% rake? .I would not walk from next door. | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, Paul Stine, 12. Jul 2003 21:43 | ||
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| on 12. Jul 2003 07:49 pokerpromoter wrote: > Greetings! > We are contemplating putting together a $1,000 Buy-In No-Limit Texas Hold 'Em > Poker Tournament in Florida at a sponsoring casino. > > Is there a market for such in that area? Would Players travel from the > surrounding states to play? > > 70% payout - with aggressive promotional marketing to get the word out. > > Any projections on the # of participants we may attract? Is 400 to 500 Players > an extreme #? > > Any ideas or suggestions? > > We presently promote Billiard and Bowling Tournaments. > > Thanks - Tom > > I would think that with 30% juice no one in there right mind would play in it. Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, stdioh, 14. Jul 2003 13:58 | ||
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| First of all, I don't think that Florida law would allow it. If you were to pull it off though, you would do well to talk to the Seminole casinos about getting dealers and tables. They would also be good at advertising the event within themselves. I'd be willing to bet that you could attract at least 100 players for such a tournament. I think that aiming at the 400+ mark may be a bit high though. As for 70% payout - if you mean that 70% of the prize pool goes to first place, it would work fine. If you mean that 70% goes to all places, then you're out of your head. Generally a $1000+100 tournament is considered pricey. You're proposing $700+300 which is a house take of almost 43% of the prize pool. If you don't adjust that down I doubt you would get more than a handfull of players no matter how agressive the marketting. | ||
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| Oh, and if you want my input on all facets..., stdioh, 14. Jul 2003 14:05 | ||
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| ...fly me down for a week, post my entry fee, and put me up in a decent hotel, and I'll consult for the tournament for free. | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, pokerpromoter, 14. Jul 2003 14:37 | ||
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| When dealing with our Billiard Tournaments and Bowling Tournaments, we utilize a 70% payout with 30% going the company for expenses and necessary profit. I have gotten many comments about the 30% rake as you call it, and it seems that we'll have a payout of 85% to the top 25% of participants, leaving 15% to be shared by our marketing company and the sponsoring casino. However, we will also charge a $75 entry fee for the Tournament. This will mainly be used to cover expenses that a Tournament of this size will certainly create. ??? - What are your opinions on rebuy-ins? On some forums, people like them, on some they don't. I mean - if someone wishes to "donate" an extra $1,000 to the cause, I can't see how we could turn that down? Plus, a player may have terrible luck and wish to try again to win the Poker Tournament. At the same time - if there are rebuys - I feel it should be limited to one? I'm not sure on this one yet - your opinions are very helpful. Thanks - Tom | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, MozMan, 14. Jul 2003 15:09 | ||
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| All of the B&M tourneys I see (I'm in Arizona) have buy-ins that go 100% to the prize pool, and the added fee is what the house gets. The most common is a $125 buy-in with a $25 fee. There are normally 150 buy-ins, so that's $3750 to the house. The house normally adds $100 per table to the prize pool as well, so that cuts their take to $2250 (for 15 tables). They also run a $1000 buy-in ($100 fee) every two weeks, and that one is winner-take-all, so if there are 35 buy-ins (the average so far) then the single winner gets $35000. As far as rebuys go, some don't like them because it gives bad players with lots of money too much advantage. Good players must certainly change the way they play. I like rebuys (and add-ons) for low buy-in tourneys (say $20 or $40) because I can get out cheap if it's obvious that I'm not playing my best game, but I can use the rebuy/addon as a tool (depending on the rules) if I'm in the zone. I certainly would enter a large buy-in tournament with rebuys. -Moz "The reports of my assimilation are greatly exaggerated." | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, 4 POKER, 14. Jul 2003 17:05 | ||
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| pokerpromoter, I have heard that poker is big in Florida and although I agree that it *could* be big........right now, the only legal poker they have (aside from the boats) are indian casinos that only allow the limit to be 25c-50c and after the pot has $10 in it, you're not allowed to make any more bets. As far as that limit...whatever....but to not allow for players to make any more bets once the pot has reached a certain size is just not poker to me. Now.......Do I think a poker tournament in Florida could be *huge*?....Absolutely! Florida is a very populated state with many from all over the country who would love to play there....I myself am looking for a reason to go back there again! But keep in mind, if and when this does occur, the side action games are what attract many of the people to going to these tournaments. I hope it works out. Keep us posted. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, stdioh, 15. Jul 2003 11:45 | ||
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| There are legal tournaments in Florida too. A friend of mine deals them, but they are not real poker tournaments. They are limited to dealing a set number of hands and awarding the prize to whomever has the most chips at the end of those hands. I don't think that the state allows poker tourneys with expensive buy-ins and a real tournament structure. | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, stdioh, 15. Jul 2003 11:43 | ||
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| See, the problem with taking a 30% rake (and in this case you are taking much more than that - the buy in is $700 and you are taking an additional $300 which is a 43% rake) is that poker tournaments are already very common. I doubt that there are many standards for the money involved in a billiards or bowling tournament, but with poker these things are very well established. Anybody who wants to pay $1000 to play in a poker tournament can show up in any of dozens of American casinos and enter such a thing and they will be paying no more than $100 to do so. Thus if you are charging $150, people will probably still come. If you charge $225, less people will come. You really need to do this for $1000+150 or less and if you can't recoup your costs and make enough of a profit by doing this, then you shouldn't do it. Now it is ok to have a rebuy tourney and rake the rebuys as well, but you need to make sure that your players are getting enough out when they win. I would suggest looking up the Texas TEARS guidelines for a tournament and sticking to them when it comes to working out the pay scale. The most important thing is that you do not set this tournament up arbitrarilly. If there is something you don't know, ask an expert and do it right. And most importantly of all, don't gauge your players or not enough will show up to play and the whole thing will be a failure. If you want to set this up, you have to realize that it is going to be difficult to make money from it. You have to pay your dealers, rent the space to host the event, get cards, tables, etc. The reason why casinos have tournaments is because they can put them in when the equipment is sitting idle and it costs them nothing additional for space. They also reap profit from bringing players' wives onto the slot machines, etc. If you don't have tables, cards, chips, and space, then this is already destined to fail. If you are expecting a casino to host the event, take $150 per entry, and let you skim $75 per entry for setting it up, I'm afraid you're in for a bit of a shock. The casino really should be setting it up itself, taking the $150 for themselves, and leaving the $75 in the prize pool so that players will actually show up to play. Long story short is this. If you can't follow the standards that are followed by other tournaments and still make a profit then don't set it up at all. Nobody will pay a dime for what everybody else is buying for a nickel. | ||
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| Re: Would A Poker Tourny In Florida Work?, Bill A., 20. Jul 2003 11:41 | ||
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| I certainly believe that Florida tournaments would prosper. However, the environments in all the Indian casinos I have visited in Florida are so thick with smoke that I cannot even stand being in the building more than ten minutes without leaving. If you ever find a non-smoking venue, I will bring at least ten friends to every event. I would love it! Bill A | ||
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