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Server Time: 2/13/2012 5:27:04 AM PACIFIC |
 Defending KK, afro, 12. Jul 2003 03:06 | ||
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| I play ring games exclusively at Planet Poker. When i get KK, regardless of what position I am in and regardless of how i play them. Whether i am aggressive or passive, they almost always get beat. What is the best way to defend them? | ||
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| Re: Defending KK, 4 POKER, 12. Jul 2003 03:54 | ||
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| The best way to play them is to be aggresive pre-flop. If someone raises, then you should be re-raising and try to knock out as many people as possible so you can take this holding heads up. If you chose to play it too passively, you will be allowing other players to see the flop too cheaply and by doing that, there will be way more hands out there now that will be drawing against you. Also, buy not playing it aggressively enough pre-flop, you are allowing players to limp in with A-X, and if the Ace hits the flop, you're pretty much done. The only time I may chose to not play them over aggressively is if I'm in one of the blinds and there was already substantial action (heavy raising) pre-flop. This way, your hand is more disguised and if you do hit a King, your opponents will be less likely to give you a set because you didn't re-raise the hand pre-flop. It also allows you to muck it on the flop if an Ace comes and the board doesn't favor you to call another bet. Other than that, I would play K-K as hard as I could because when you just limp (like the guy who limped in with A-A; your previous post question), then you will be allowing players who have inferior holdings to hit their two pair or their small pocket pair, or even an Ace. If you do play it strong, you may be able to knock out some of those hands. As far as always losing with K-K.....try to play it more aggressively pre-flop and see what your results are then. Don't try to play "trap" every time with this holding. You should be able to be the aggressor on the flop and you should also be able to throw it away as well. if you don't play the hand a little stronger pre-flop, you may find yourself calling all bets to the river after the Ace flops,and THAT is where you're going to lose money on this hand. You must try to eliminate all those "bad Ace" holdings and the other ones I mentioned as well. K-K wins alot more times than you may think. But if the games you chose to play in are extremely loose, then be prepared for when your big pocket pair does not hold up against an entire field. Maybe a short-handed game would suit your style more, I don't know, but there are many players who prefer it. Just something to think about. Take note to what hands are beating you when you have pocket K-K's and say to yourself, "would this player have called with his holding had I been more aggressive pre-flop"? There's nothing you can do if a player choses to play inferior hands...all you should be concerned with is how YOU play your own holdings. If you continue to play strong cards and make the best possible decisions throughout the entire hand (pre-flop included), you'll show good results, so forget about the times when your K-K gets beat. It happens. It's how strong you are as a player that will determine if you're going to be on the winning side, or the losing side for the long term. Better luck. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Defending KK, 4 POKER, 13. Jul 2003 22:07 | ||
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| Another point I'd like to bring up is when you say that you lose more with K-K than you should, aside from playing it too passively pre-flop, do you find yourself somewhat lost on the flop when it is apparent that your hand is pretty much drawing slim to improve AND win? Example: if you're holding 2 black kings and the flop is 9-10-J with all hearts and there is heavy betting here, someone already may have the flush and unless you hit a king on the turn and than a paired board on the river, (or even if the board pairs on the turn with one of the flop cards, and THAN you hit your king), you must be strong enough now to throw your K-K away. Yes, someone may hold just top pair and/or a flush card to go with it, but someone may have flopped a straight as well. And not all times will it mean that when there is a flop such as this one, that your K-K isn't still the best hand, but more times than not with substantial betting and raising, you will find that your own hand is already beat. It's very hard to throw away pocket KK's and pocket AA's right on the flop, but with an extremely coordinated board and/or with all the same suits, if your big pair does not contain one of those suits, you're going to be finding yourself on the losing end more than you may think. Yes, players DO make "moves" on the flop and that is where your best judgement calls are going to come into factor. But like I said, if there is already a raise to you pre-flop and you are able to 3 or 4 bet the hand, MAKE the other players in your game pay 3 or 4 bets cold with their hand instead of just 2. You'll be giving your own holding a better chance at holding up. If they chose to call, that's ok too...but you must know now that with the more players that see the flop, you may have to play it more "tricky" and use your position to knock some of them out, and you may have to proceed with more caution if the board really doesn't favor your holding. If you feel that KK has cost you money more than it has made you money.....than you should be re-evaluating your play with this hand once the board is present. What I'm saying is, K-K is a very profitable holding long term, but it's how you handle the entire situation (pre-flop, flop, turn and river), and you may need to make some adjustments in your own play so you can show a profit from it. And try not to get discouraged when you lose with this hand....you may lose with it 3 times in a row and have played it absolutely perfect.....it's only the long term results that matter, and if you play the hand as best as you can play it, with maybe some minor adjustments, I think you'll be pleased with the results ($). | ||
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| Re: Defending KK, SendMoney, 13. Jul 2003 11:11 | ||
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| I used to play at Planet Poker and I also had the feeling that KK for some reason never did well for me at that online poker room. Whether that is just my perception or there is something shady going on at PP I cannot be certain. I've come up with a few good rules for KK however: Always raise with it before the flop if no one else has. Always call raises with it before the flop, I prefer to smooth call with it though some prefer to re-raise or cap, I do not. Bet/Raise flops that contain no A - I prefer to raise and not re-raise or cap with the overpair. Bet/Raise/Re-raise/Cap flops that contain a K regardless of whether or not an A is out there as well. If there is an A on the flop and no K, try betting the flop out of position or raising the pot from late position to represent that you have a hand like AK - if someone raises back at you fold. The key here is to not commit any more money to this pot after the flop. Many times I've had KK and raised pre-flop, the flop brought an A, I bet it like it helped me and everyone folded - odds are no one had an A. Now if you bet it and someone calls or raises odds are they do have an A. If this is the case you have two outs to win, that's half a gut shot = not good. Don't be the guy who calls turn AND river bets hoping the other guy is betting middle pair or QQ, invariably he has A10s AJo or AQo and you're toast. | ||
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| Re: Defending KK, shorn, 14. Jul 2003 04:49 | ||
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| Never slow play KK at any point in the hand unless you have flopped top set with a relatively uncoordinated board. 3-bet or cap pre-flop if possible and bet out or raise on the flop where possible. Most players who will play Ax for 2 bets will not flat call 3 pre-flop, so you must make them do that (a big mistake) to play. And, as 4P points out, if a very coordinated board or an Ace flops and someone bets into you, either fold or raise. Calling is a waste of time on the flop with this hand. You might ask why raise is there is an ace? For two reasons: (1) you can get the information you need cheaply if someone continues to play with you (if they call, they most likely have a weak ace; if they raise, they have a big one (or a bigger hand with a coordinated board) and you can fold with confidence); (2) If they are putting on a move, then you can potentially force them off their bluff AND make any draws behind you pay 2 bets to continue, a win-win. This also shows the importance of being very aggressive pre-flop...if you three bet pre-flop and an Ace flops and someone bets into you, YOU ARE BEATEN. Fold and save your $$ for a stronger play. KK can be such a trap hand if you play it weakly and don't let it go when it is obvious you are behind. Play it aggressively until someone or something (the board) tells you you are beaten. | ||
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