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Server Time: 11/21/2008 10:44:13 PM PACIFIC |
 defending against aggression in nolimit, Lottery Larry, 11. Jul 2003 14:12 | ||
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| i am pretty new to nolimit holdem, having been introduced in a home game via low buy-in tournaments. i am having a problem with how to deal with aggression when the bets are large and i can get knocked out for a bad decision- or just a "wrong results" one. i would appreciate any help. i get the impression that players are going after me because i am playing too cautiously and tight. also i do not know what hands are "good" nolimit hands to stand fast with so i get a lot of money stolen. in "Holdem for Advanced Players-Milleneum Edition" there is a section on short-handed play which lists hands that you should defend with in limit games- Ax, pairs, two cards 9 and higher, Kx suited. while that seems reasonable for a limit game it feels very dangerous for a nolimit one. a recent tournament disaster made very clear that i need a lot of help. three hands stood out in this two-table tournament. first- with Ace high i called down someone who was pushing a lot of chips at me on every street. i was riding on the wings of a two-flush which didn't get there, but felt he was making a play. i was right and took down the pot. second- 99 on a board of 876K and another player making large raises made me fold on the turn- supposedly he was bluffing. i assume i should have gone all in on the outside-straight flop? third- i horribly played a TT against an aggressive large stack, calling a large reraise of my small raise for most of my chips at the final table, when another loose player who i had raised was all-in. I went all in on the flop for my remaining chips with a mixed board, only to see the raiser show me QQ- which i should have known about, i think. so, as a starting point, what kinds of hands should i be playing against agressive opponents in nolimit tournaments? yours, LL | ||
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| Re: defending against aggression in nolimit, MozMan, 11. Jul 2003 14:40 | ||
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| Larry- See my responses below. I hope they are helpful, but keep in mind that I am no expert in NL play... on 11. Jul 2003 14:12 Lottery Larry wrote: > i am pretty new to nolimit holdem, having been introduced in a home game via low > buy-in tournaments. i am having a problem with how to deal with aggression when > the bets are large and i can get knocked out for a bad decision- or just a > "wrong results" one. i would appreciate any help. > > i get the impression that players are going after me because i am playing > too cautiously and tight. also i do not know what hands are "good" nolimit > hands to stand fast with so i get a lot of money stolen. > In NLHE, more than most other games, players will take advantage if tehy think they can easily push you off a hand. If you can somehow give them the impression that you will call a lot of big bets, then they will be less likely to come after you without something big. > in "Holdem for Advanced Players-Milleneum Edition" there is a section on > short-handed play which lists hands that you should defend with in limit games- > Ax, pairs, two cards 9 and higher, Kx suited. while that seems reasonable for a > limit game it feels very dangerous for a nolimit one. > NL is inherently dangerous because of the possibility of losing all of your chips in one shot. This is exacerbated by a freezout tourney structure where you can't buy in again. Here is the rationale behind the recommendations of the book: When there are a lot of players, there's a greater chance that someone has a GREAT hand. When the game is short-handed, it is much more common that something like Ax or a medium pair will be the best hand to the end. The same principles apply in NLHE, you jsut have to come out swinging with bigger bets, and be ready to fold if you get a real sense that someone caught a monster. > a recent tournament disaster made very clear that i need a lot of help. > three hands stood out in this two-table tournament. > > first- with Ace high i called down someone who was pushing a lot of chips at > me on every street. i was riding on the wings of a two-flush which didn't get > there, but felt he was making a play. i was right and took down the pot. > Instinct means a lot in NL. If you had a good read on him, then this very well might have been the right play. Keep in mind, tho, that a drawing hand like Ax suited plays better against a large field. When you are in this hand heads-up, you're not really playing the flush, you're playing the Ace. If you have good reason to believe that A-high is good against this guy, that's great, but it takes brass... > second- 99 on a board of 876K and another player making large raises made me > fold on the turn- supposedly he was bluffing. i assume i should have gone all > in on the outside-straight flop? > Tough one. Again, it's a drawing hand, and not great for short-handed play. You're really just playing the 99... in which case, if you are gonna go all in you do it BEFORE the flop on the strength of the pair. > third- i horribly played a TT against an aggressive large stack, calling a > large reraise of my small raise for most of my chips at the final table, when > another loose player who i had raised was all-in. > I went all in on the flop for my remaining chips with a mixed board, only > to see the raiser show me QQ- which i should have known about, i think. > This is a tough one. Again, when that short-handed, you want to go all in before the flop with a pair. In this case, you would have been busted anyway. If there are more than 3 players on the deal, then your best bet is to make a strong-enough bet, between 3 and 5 times the BB, and see if you get re-raised. The re-raiser most likely has a higher pair or AK and you need to start thinking about a lay-down. > so, as a starting point, what kinds of hands should i be playing against > agressive opponents in nolimit tournaments? > Medium to large pocket pairs and big cards are a good start. A lot depend on stack size and position too. > yours, LL -Moz "The reports of my assimilation are greatly exaggerated." | ||
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| Re: defending against aggression in nolimit, MozMan, 11. Jul 2003 14:57 | ||
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| Hey- One more thing I've learned... just a general rule... I NEVER like it when someone tries to put me all in. I always want to make the decision to do that on my own. So I will only call an all-in raise if I wanted to go all-in anyway... -Moz "The reports of my assimilation are greatly exaggerated." | ||
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| Re: defending against aggression in nolimit, Snorbolus, 11. Jul 2003 17:27 | ||
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| Larry, I am not a tournament player, nor am I especially experienced at no-limit. Please consider this when weighing my advice. But I think that a real difference between limit and no-limit poker is the potential to push your big edges. In limit poker the betting structure protects worse players from better ones, by limiting the amount that they can loose per bad decision. This means that, to overcome the cost of the blinds in limit games, you must constantly exploit small edges as they occur; because there is a limit to the amount that you can win or loose per hand. No-limit and pot-limit structures offer no such protection. Players can loose their entire stack in one hand. This means that you can afford to be much more selective about which edges you decide to chase. Especially if the other players are not respecting your raises much and frequently push all in against you, then you can afford to wait for a very positive situation before you decide to play back. A good question to ask yourself before getting deeply involved with any hand is "am I prepared to back these cards with my whole stack?" If your not then don't put any chips into the pot that you are not prepared to write off if somebody plays back at you. In general I look for similar sorts of hands in fixed limit and in pot-limit (my prefered form of big bet poker) games, except that I value small pairs more (because sets are such powerfull holdings) and unsuited big cards much less (because top pair is a great hand to loose a big pot with). I try to avoid playing drawing hands from early and middle positions because these are very hard to play when there are players still to act. A good book on the subject is: Pot-Limit & No-Limit Poker -- Stewart Reuben, Bob Ciaffone. You can get it from Amazon, Bob Ciaffone's own website and most other poker related booksellers. Snorbolus | ||
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| Re: defending against aggression in nolimit, Mark, 12. Jul 2003 13:34 | ||
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| Super System (and some other books) can help you with No Limit Hold'em. It is a different game from limit hold'em, and many players do not realize this. The key to limit hold'em is if you're going to play a hand, play it aggressively. Calling is a very bad play in No Limit Hold'em. The only time i call is when i'm sure my opponent has the present nuts, but my draw will beat his hand. Otherwise i allways bet/rasie, top pair, two pair, trips, sets, AND draws, AND on complete bluffs (when i have position). And these bets always come on the early betting rounds and are always pot size. If i get reraised (3-bet) i can make a judgement decision. If I actually have a good hand, i can go al-in. If i'm bluffing, weak, or figure to be beaten, i can fold. Strong draws are good hands to make big bets with. Stack size and how well you read your opponents are BIG factors in playing NL, much more so than in limit hold'em. (Stack size has almost no bearing in limit play). NL does not play the same as limit, so don't try to carry over what you know about limit into the NL games. 34suited can be a good hand in NL. Mark | ||
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