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Server Time: 11/21/2008 6:22:44 PM PACIFIC |
 Dead hands, Warren Hudson, 11. Jul 2003 03:22 | ||
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| What should I have done ? Hold'em $4/8 in a Louisiana boat. I'm seated #2, did not see the flop, so I have no money in the pot. At the River, #3, #5, #7 and #10 are in the hand with a pretty good pot. While waiting on #7 to take action, #3 pushed his cards face down towards #1 (not in the hand) to show what he was holding, and the dealer mucked his cards. #1 and the dealer along with #3 and the dealer fished the cards back out, choosing the first two "wrong" and finally getting the "right" two cards, called the raised bet, re-raised and upon showdown produced the nut straight. I let out a WHAT ? WHAT looking right at the dealer. Seat #5 put up a slight protest, the pot was pushed to #3 and the next hand was dealt. I've NEVER seen that at any cardroom. Ever. Uncovered cards are mucked, and that is the end of that. Call Congress or your mommy, but mucked cards are dead dead dead. Should I have called for the Floor, given the fact that I had nothing in the pot ? | ||
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| Re: Dead hands, 4 POKER, 11. Jul 2003 04:03 | ||
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| First of all.....Where was the control by the dealer? Why didn't anyone speak up at the time that this occured? Everyone involved in the hand was just willing to let that take place? The floorman should have been called IMMEDIATELY upon the dealer grabbing his cards and tossing them in the muck and not to mention....What's the deal with the players and the dealer going through the muck of cards? That is obsurd to say the very least. This dealer was completey oblivious to the rules AND poker for that matter. But you know what?.....Even if that player had a legitimate hand, that is not the point. You must protect your hand at all times and if a dealer accidentally scoops away your hand, that's your fault. Yes, rules vary from casino to casino....but in every card room I have been in; .....if you don't protect your cards....your hand is dead, period. Now...if that player had turned his hand up already and it was after all betting had taken place, if the dealer or at least two other people had witnessed his holding cards, even if the dealer had mucked them then, they would be able to retreive them out of the muck...but with no witnesses to his hand, his hand should not have been scoped for throughout the muck of cards. And it doesn't matter if he showed them to his buddy either...THAT is not even allowed if you want to get really technical. It sounds to me that there was absolutely no control going on in this game and IMO, if I were sitting at that table, I could give a rats ass if I was in the hand or not, you better believe I would have said something. But I would have spoken up as soon as the dealer and the other two players went skimming through the muck, not AFTER the fact. But regardless, you should have said something. You should protect the welfare of the entire table and speak up when something may seem to be going against the rules. Even if that was allowed (which I highly doubt), make sure for yourself so you will know exactly what the rules are on this boat. It sounds to me that noone even cared and maybe this boat that you play on, doesn't care either. My gosh, a broken down car would run better than this game! (Geez). You were obviously playing with a bunch of tourists who were just there to have fun and nothing else....but by the way you sounded....you showed some concern...you should have carried it thorough, though. Get the answer that you deserve as a player in this game. Make the dealer and the floorman tell you what the rules are. That's why we have rules. To make sure that everything runs as smoothly as possible and that ALL are treated fairly. You would have been holding up the integrity of the game by speaking up. And if you done so as soon as it happened, it would not have looked as bad as if you waited to say something after the hand was completely played out. Grant it, noone wants to be the bad guy, because you're only going to get someone mad, but by stopping the dealer first, and than asking for a ruling, is acceptable. There's too much sneaky crap that goes on anyway....don't let that happen in your game, I sure as hell wouldn't let it go on in mine. Protect yourself from things like this happening to you in the future, if nothing else Warren, really. Remember that the next time you play here or anywhere else....that you are fully aware of the rules. They do vary. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Dead hands, beigs, 11. Jul 2003 07:54 | ||
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| Ah... yes. Protect your cards at all costs. This happened to me over the weekend where I had a split pot. The dealer put my cards in the muck and started pushing the pot to the other winner. I had said that it was a split pot and every other player agreed and I got my split with the dealer apologizing for mucking my cards even though she saw that I had the Ace that split the pot. I got my half of the money, but then some of the other players explained to me that it was my fault for not protecting my cards. I must have thrown them face up to far into the table and the dealer just scooped them up. I got away with it because it was a 1-3 game. I was assured that if I was at the 10-20 table there would have been no sympathy. Sad thing is that I knew better. I know why people put their chips on their cards. I just never thought it would happen to me! on 11. Jul 2003 04:03 4 POKER wrote: > First of all.....Where was the control by the dealer? Why didn't anyone speak up at > the time that this occured? Everyone involved in the hand was just willing to let > that take place? The floorman should have been called IMMEDIATELY upon the dealer > grabbing his cards and tossing them in the muck and not to mention....What's the deal > with the players and the dealer going through the muck of cards? That is obsurd to > say the very least. This dealer was completey oblivious to the rules AND poker for > that matter. > > But you know what?.....Even if that player had a legitimate hand, that is not the > point. You must protect your hand at all times and if a dealer accidentally scoops > away your hand, that's your fault. Yes, rules vary from casino to casino....but in > every card room I have been in; .....if you don't protect your cards....your hand is > dead, period. Now...if that player had turned his hand up already and it was after > all betting had taken place, if the dealer or at least two other people had > witnessed his holding cards, even if the dealer had mucked them then, they would be > able to retreive them out of the muck...but with no witnesses to his hand, his hand > should not have been scoped for throughout the muck of cards. And it doesn't matter > if he showed them to his buddy either...THAT is not even allowed if you want to get > really technical. > > It sounds to me that there was absolutely no control going on in this game and IMO, > if I were sitting at that table, I could give a rats ass if I was in the hand or not, > you better believe I would have said something. But I would have spoken up as soon as > the dealer and the other two players went skimming through the muck, not AFTER the > fact. But regardless, you should have said something. You should protect the welfare > of the entire table and speak up when something may seem to be going against the > rules. Even if that was allowed (which I highly doubt), make sure for yourself so you > will know exactly what the rules are on this boat. It sounds to me that noone even > cared and maybe this boat that you play on, doesn't care either. My gosh, a broken > down car would run better than this game! (Geez). > > You were obviously playing with a bunch of tourists who were just there to have fun > and nothing else....but by the way you sounded....you showed some concern...you > should have carried it thorough, though. Get the answer that you deserve as a player > in this game. Make the dealer and the floorman tell you what the rules are. > > That's why we have rules. To make sure that everything runs as smoothly as possible > and that ALL are treated fairly. You would have been holding up the integrity of the > game by speaking up. And if you done so as soon as it happened, it would not have > looked as bad as if you waited to say something after the hand was completely played > out. Grant it, noone wants to be the bad guy, because you're only going to get > someone mad, but by stopping the dealer first, and than asking for a ruling, is > acceptable. There's too much sneaky crap that goes on anyway....don't let that happen > in your game, I sure as hell wouldn't let it go on in mine. > > Protect yourself from things like this happening to you in the future, if nothing > else Warren, really. > > > Remember that the next time you play here or anywhere else....that you are fully > aware of the rules. They do vary. > > > > 4 POKER > | ||
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| Re: Dead hands, 4 POKER, 11. Jul 2003 08:01 | ||
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| Beigs, Actually, in your case, it was a little different because the whole table saw your cards. Even at a higher limit game you would have gotten half the pot because there were enough who witnessed your holding. But it's still a good habit to get into when it comes to protecting your hand and by leaving the cards in front of you until the dealer pushes you the pot; after you get your money is when you should give the dealer your cards. But we've all done it........that's why it's easy for me to explain it! I'm glad you had honest people at your table who spoke up for you. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: Dead hands, Risky Business, 11. Jul 2003 06:29 | ||
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| Where was this? Isle of Capri Lake Charles?? I would have just left.........and informed as many people as possible. Telling one floorman does nothing. They're better off covering it up quietly. You have to spread the news. on 11. Jul 2003 03:22 Warren Hudson wrote: > What should I have done ? > > Hold'em $4/8 in a Louisiana boat. I'm seated #2, did not see the flop, so I > have no money in the pot. > > At the River, #3, #5, #7 and #10 are in the hand with a pretty good pot. While > waiting on #7 to take action, #3 pushed his cards face down towards #1 (not in > the hand) to show what he was holding, and the dealer mucked his cards. > > #1 and the dealer along with #3 and the dealer fished the cards back out, > choosing the first two "wrong" and finally getting the "right" two cards, called > the raised bet, re-raised and upon showdown produced the nut straight. > > I let out a WHAT ? WHAT looking right at the dealer. Seat #5 put up a slight > protest, the pot was pushed to #3 and the next hand was dealt. > > I've NEVER seen that at any cardroom. Ever. Uncovered cards are mucked, and > that is the end of that. Call Congress or your mommy, but mucked cards are dead > dead dead. > > Should I have called for the Floor, given the fact that I had nothing in the > pot ? | ||
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| Re: Dead hands, shorn, 11. Jul 2003 07:04 | ||
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| You should have thrown a hissy fit and asked for the floor immediately. You didn't have any $$ at stake true, but how does that protect you from the next stupid play by the dealer in a hand where you do? This was unbeleivable. I am with 4P on this...as a player in the game you are responsible for ALL table rules regardless of wheter you are in a hand or not. Protecting the integrity of the game is much more important than allowing egregious behavior to go unchecked because it makes you uncomfortable. | ||
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