|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 11/21/2008 5:57:48 PM PACIFIC |
 AA vs KK - WSOP style, trwebb26, 10. Jul 2003 05:52 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I have been ponderiing in my head for 2 days now... Do you think you would've gone all in with KK against Scotty N. having the AA in the WSOP? I can't see any other play but all in. I thought maybe a large raise (half my chips) might be a good test for the AA, but it happens so rarely that even if he came back at me I'd have trouble laying it down. Anybody? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: AA vs KK - WSOP style, shorn, 10. Jul 2003 06:04 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| The only argument for laying it down is if you have such a stone cold read that you can fold with good conscience. Also, you have to remember that it is the first day and you can't win the tournament on the first day, but you can certainly lose it. So, you could lay it down because you don't want to be out of the tourny if you lose. Andy Glazer wrote a fantastic article a few issues ago in CP about such a laydown that I found fascinating. He went through his entire process of deciding that his opponent had AA and he tossed his Kings. It is definitely worth a read and is a textbook example of how to work backwords to figure out what an opponent that you KNOW has. But, it MUST be someone you know. Frankly, Scotty had a great situation here based on his reputation for aggressively pushing weaker hands. RV knew this so there was no way that he could have put him on AA with any degree of certainty to fold. I would have pushed in against Scotty with KK too. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: AA vs KK - WSOP style, Frank Grimes, 10. Jul 2003 08:51 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| What impact do you think stack size had on this hand? If I recall correctly, SN had about 30,000 to RV's 7500. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: AA vs KK - WSOP style, shorn, 10. Jul 2003 09:43 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| On the first day, I don't think that should matter too much. I don't think RV was close to blinding out so it wasn't like he was forced to call. I really think that he called based on Scotty's reputation as a loose aggressive player. Remember...even at 7500, it only takes 2 hands to get to 30,000. So, I just don't think it was right to risk the entire tournament this early. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: AA vs KK - WSOP style, Big_Slick, 10. Jul 2003 07:25 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Watching the show last night on ESPN, I didn't like a number of Roberts plays (like slow playing Aces). I don't see how you can possibly go all-in here from early position. Robert put himself in the predicament of having to guess if Scotty was bluffing, holding a lesser hand or actually had the goods. It's the first day of the tourney. Although you are holding K-K, there is always the possibility that Scotty is holding A-A. But the bigger picture is, you can always get outdrawn with an all-in no matter what you are holding. I dunno... maybe it was karma since Robert pulled off that horrible bluff trying for the A-5 straight against Scotty. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: AA vs KK - WSOP style, shorn, 10. Jul 2003 07:35 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Yeah. It is tough to go all in with KK against Scotty because you never know where he is. Given the amount of times that he raises pots with bluffs and the myriad of other hands he could have though, I think it was a good play. The only argument is that it is the first day and if you lose your gone. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: AA vs KK - WSOP style, Big_Slick, 10. Jul 2003 07:45 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Would I have gone all-in with K-K... I don't know. Man... what a tough hand to lay down. But knowing that I was facing elimination if I lost... I probably would have. I am enjoying the ESPN shows though. Although only about half the program shows actual poker, I am also enjoying the different stories about the players. I wish I could decapitate a banana with a playing card! I wonder how much money Jesus has won through the years with that skill? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: AA vs KK - WSOP style, shorn, 10. Jul 2003 07:49 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| That was a cool segment on Chris F. I thought the throiw a card in a hat from 20 feet was more impressive. I bet he has won a ton of dough on those stunts. Amarillo Slim would be proud! In retrospect, I probably would have layed down KK to Scotty as well. It is just too early to bust out on anything other than AA preflop. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: AA vs KK - WSOP style, Risky Business, 10. Jul 2003 08:08 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Hindsight....gotta love it. Without seeing a flop, you put your opponent on at least one Ace, so you fold King-King type of power. The catch here is that you're the only one that knows you had King-King. If anything, Scotty knew Robert had King-King (or A-K) before Robert knew he had Ace-Ace. There's the advantage in this hand. If you've made your raise too large, in an attempt to kick everyone out, you've already committed yourself to going all-in. I think someone already said this, but maybe a smaller raise next time, and hope to see a flop. The problem here is, if you don't see an Ace on the flop, you're probably going all-in again, and you're back to losing your seat. Robert has already joked with the guy on his left that........"one of these hands, YOU'RE going to be the one with A-A, and I'm going to be the one with K-K, and I'm going to be out of the tournament." You have to listen through the commentary to hear it, but it's there. on 10. Jul 2003 07:49 shorn wrote: > That was a cool segment on Chris F. I thought the throiw a card in a hat from 20 feet was more > impressive. I bet he has won a ton of dough on those stunts. Amarillo Slim would be proud! > > In retrospect, I probably would have layed down KK to Scotty as well. It is just too early to bust > out on anything other than AA preflop. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: AA vs KK - WSOP style, Big_Slick, 10. Jul 2003 08:34 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I remember hearing that. I wonder how much mileage Robert would have gotten if he mucked his Kings face up? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: AA vs KK - WSOP style, stdioh, 10. Jul 2003 12:55 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| It takes a lot to lay down KK preflop. Basically, I look at it like this. If I raise my kings and get reraised by a substantial amount, then rather than pushing all in, I'll reraise the minimum. Now if my opponent shoves all in I can think about folding the kings, unless my opponent is an idiot. Of course this sort of exchange would only happen very early in a tournament. Lets say the blinds are 5-10 and it is the first hand of a T1000 tourney. I bet out UTG with KK at 30 and get raised by another player to 100. Now instead of shoving in here and hoping my KK is good, if the player is really a good player and would only be reraising with QQ, AK, AA, or KK, then I can easilly test him for aces. I make it 200. Now here is what the betting has said. Me: "I have a raising hand" Him: I have a premium raising hand" Me: "I have either AA or KK" A reasonable opponent here will either call, fold, or push all in at this point. There's no sense in making it 400 as we've both indicated extreme strength. If he has AK he really wants to see a flop now as there is no way I am on a dominated weaker ace. Likewise, if he has QQ he has to fear me for a bigger hand. Really if he had KK he could call me or fold. If he had QQ or AK he should fold, but may call. Only with AA would he be pushing back all in. If this exact thing played out then I would muck my KK to his all in over my 200. Now if blinds are 100-200 and we each have T1000 this changes drastically. I ake it 600 and he shoves all in and I call. Even if I had QQ. Now when I'm playing in a tournament with BBPPs I know that there are some dummies out there and if somebody is pushing all in preflop with any pair, any ace, or any 2 cards over T and any suited cards, and he does it again and again and again, then I might go all in preflop against him with QQ or even AK, but I'd have to know he wasn't all that bright. In that case when I make it 30 and he makes it 100 I just shove all in. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: AA vs KK - WSOP style, shorn, 11. Jul 2003 06:37 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| I like your analysis here. The test minimum re-raise is a great play because he will call with anything less than AA and re-raise only with AA. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network |
|