|
||
|
||
|
Server Time: 11/21/2008 5:46:47 PM PACIFIC |
 Help settle this debate!, The Prince, 10. Jul 2003 05:12 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Hi all, here's a situation a player I know got himself into and I completely disagree with his play. Tell me what you would do. Always wanting to improve my skills I'd like to know if I'm really wrong or right. You are 3 hours into a 500$ limit Hold'em tournament. Each player started with 500 in chips. After getting all rags you're down to your last 125. I don't know what the limits were but I'm guessing the blinds were 25-50. You're on the button and 5 players limp in front of you. You look down and see 7s2s. What do you do? Thanks, The Prince | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Help settle this debate!, shorn, 10. Jul 2003 05:33 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| This might not be the right play and I am sure I will get disagreement here, but I fold this hand. If it were a NL tournament, then a large raise might be in order (depending on other factors like the stack sizes of the limpers), but in limit I think you throw it away. Reasons being: you have enough for almost two more full rotations and therefore should not risk valuable chips on an incredibly marginal holding. That should be saved for when you HAVE to play. Secondly, this is not a hand that you can play aggressively even if you hit it. And, you most likely need the board to hit you twice to win. Now, if you had only enough to call the limp bet, then this may change things as now you are guaranteed to see the river giving you the extra equity of seeing the last card. But, in the situation you describe, I think you wait for a better spot in the remaing 19 hands to play. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Help settle this debate!, trwebb26, 10. Jul 2003 05:47 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Toss it and look for a better spot to push them all in before the blinds get back around to you. As TJ Cloutier says - the value of the cards is in the rank - NOT being suited... being suited is just an added bonus (statistically about 4%). | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Help settle this debate!, TKarrde, 10. Jul 2003 05:48 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Regardless of about any circumstances. I would fold this. If you play this hand you are gambling. I can see wanting to take a gamble with more money in the pot (5 limpers) but can you really get any worse cards? Well maybe 72o. Getting blinded might not be the best thing... but it is better than playing stupid. TKarrde "The next best thing to playing and winning, is playing and losing." | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Help settle this debate!, 4 POKER, 10. Jul 2003 06:57 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| If you play the 7-2 suited and don't flop really strong (and yes, the odds are against this holding), you will be losing the opportunity for waiting for a much better spot with a MUCH better hand. You have the entire round to wait for a better hand without having to post up any more blinds...and when you think about it, there couldn't be a worse starter than 7-2. And forget that it's "soooted". Pretend that it isn't and than look at it again....pretty crappy, huh? (LOL). The flush very rarely hits anyway, and whose to say that if you do draw to it and hit it, that it would be good anyway? I would muck this hand, and hope that some of the other players busted out before I did chose to play my next hand. Allow the others to lose and pick your own spot more carefully where you can have the advantage by chosing to play much higher cards in rank. Ace rag is better than 7-2....even 7-2 suited. 4 POKER | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Help settle this debate!, Big_Slick, 10. Jul 2003 07:12 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Just curious... what is the debate over? What was your friends argument for playing this trash? | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Help settle this debate!, Jav, 10. Jul 2003 10:40 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Unless you are a blind and your blind is at least half your current stack I don't see how you could play 7-2, suited or not. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Help settle this debate!, grey, 10. Jul 2003 11:23 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| At first I thought I read this wrong but now I'm sure I understand. However, don't see why anyone would want to play this. Especially with 5 others already in the pot, these are horrible cards. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Help settle this debate!, MozMan, 10. Jul 2003 11:53 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| In limit play, this is the kind of hand you fold and try to forget you ever saw it. It's only very slightly better than the worst possible holding; the same cards unsuited. The only circumstances under which I would see a flop with this holding are: 1) I'm the BB and unraised, so I see the flop for free, or 2) I'm the SB and the price to call is 1/3 bet (i.e. blinds at 10/15), so I will see the flop virtually for free. Anything else, and I fold this. -Moz "The reports of my assimilation are greatly exaggerated." | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Results and my thoughts, The Prince, 10. Jul 2003 11:54 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Hi, I know it sounded like a trick question. But it was not. I was having an argument with a player with more tournament experience than I do and since he avocated playing the hand, I felt like asking just to make sure I'm not missing something. I strongly disagree with his play. He limped, so did the blinds, and he ended up flopping the flush and winning the hand. When you are low on chips, they have a greater value and so it's even more important to play them when the situation is right. It's much better to play against a fewer number of opponents such as 1 or 2 by for example raising first in and playing against the BB. Even with a hand like 87s, which could show a profit in the long run, I believe you should pass, as you should get a better situation in the next 2 rounds; i.e. a better risk vs reward situation. And he said that playing this hand should make for good publicity and make his opponents pay him on his good hands later in the tournament. I thought this was totally off. It's certainly not the time to make a loose image play 3 hours in the tournament after having folded most of your hands and certainly not when you are down to your last chips. By then it's simply gambling and it's not what we are paid to do. Thanks all for the comments, Nicolas Fradet (The Prince) | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Results and my thoughts, Big_Slick, 10. Jul 2003 12:00 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| And he said that playing this hand should make for good publicity and make his opponents pay him on his good hands later in the tournament Well, if he keeps playing that crap, he won't even be around later in the tournament. In order to 'advertise' you need to play the hand to the bitter end. That gets expensive. Your friend gave you very poor advice. His reasoning here is flawed. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Results and my thoughts, stdioh, 10. Jul 2003 13:34 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| limping there is the worst thing you could possibly do. Your chances of making a flush (assuming that you always hand around for a backdoor flush) are about 4%. He is crippling his stack if he doesn't hit the flush and he is pot committed if he hits a flush draw. Stupid to limp. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Help settle this debate!, mroban, 10. Jul 2003 12:25 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| If you are on the button and the blinds are 25-50, you have another 2 chances for a better hand than that. Since 2-7s is almost as bad a hand as you could hope for, I personally would wait one more hand before making the desperation move. Being one seat or 2 seats off the button still gives pretty good position to play the hand after the flop (but since you are basically pot committed it doesn't really matter much anyway - either you win the hand before the flop or basically are all in after ward). That would be my play, doesn't mean it is necessarily correct. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Help settle this debate!, stdioh, 10. Jul 2003 13:24 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| You absolutely must fold this hand. True that an all-in move could fold everybody off in general in this case, but your stack is far too small to be intimidating and other players know it. If you push in here one of two things will happen. 1) You will be isolated by a raise and see the hand heads up with one that badly dominates you 2) You will get multiple hands calling and be ridiculously dominated. In either case, you would need to hit your hand far too hard to have a chance of winning. You're all the way around from the blinds so you have a chance to catch some decent cards to push in with and hopefully steal the blinds. Playing here would be idiotic. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Help settle this debate!, Schuster, 10. Jul 2003 13:31 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| This was a limit event, not a no limit event stdioh. In any case, I agree with the others that it's a clear fold. If he's trying to justify playing it, he isn't as good a tournament player as you think he is. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| Re: Help settle this debate!, stdioh, 10. Jul 2003 13:35 | ||
| View ( Message | Thread ) | Return to Thread List | |
| Whatever. Limit only gives you more of a reason to fold. | ||
| Return to Thread List | ||
| POKER FORUM HOME | POKER FORUM | LINK TO US | ARCHIVE | ONLINE POKER | Copyright 2002, United Poker Forum |
|
Getting Started |
UPF Tournaments |
Poker News, Views, Rules |
Poker Strategy & Psychology |
Money and Bankroll Poker Bonuses & Promotions | World Series of Poker (WSOP) | Play Online Poker | Poker Odds & Statistics | Tournament Poker | Poker Books, Videos & Learning Tools Looking for a Poker Game | Poker Bad Beats | Not Quite Poker | Quizzes and Polls | Forum Suggestions & Bugs |
|
|
|
|
Interesting Links: Online Poker | Free Poker Games | United Poker Network |
|