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Server Time: 8/20/2008 3:03:01 AM PACIFIC |
 10-3 offsuit in the Small Blind, Mark, 9. Jul 2003 18:03 | ||
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| Usually i play quite tight in limit hold'em except in the SB. Then recently i realized i was giving up too much in the SB by calling in the late stages of tournaments, so i tightened up my requirements in tournaments. So now i'm trying to decide what requirements to use in limit ring games. I find that i can limp with trash in the SB (for 1/2 a small bet) as long as 3 or more players have called before me. This gives me 9:1 pot odds. I muck if less call before me, and i never play trash for a raise. This all assumes that the table is not too aggressive and i can read at least some of my opponents. So, today i limped in with 10-3 in the SB after 3 callers. The flop came down with 2 threes, and i eventually made a boat on the river, (although i was in the lead the whole way). I took a 10 big bet pot with my trash. After the hand i took alot of abuse from the other players. Before this hand, my bets were feared, but after this hand most of the table liked to call me down. I left the table after 45 mins up 20 big bets. Their verbal abuse got me to thinking, " Was 10-3 too loose?". I know it is a trash hand, but when i'm getting 9:1 against a field that does not intimidate me, why shouldn't i take it. The 10 big bets i won is equal to 40 times what i had to pay to limp! That is 40 to one implied odds (i know a much more reasonable # would be 20:1). So, what does everyone think? The added bonus of playing loose in the SB was the cheap advertising I got when i actually hit my hand, and how well hidden my hand was becasue of my (normally) very tight-play. Mark | ||
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| Re: 10-3 offsuit in the Small Blind, 4 POKER, 9. Jul 2003 19:07 | ||
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| 10-3 offsuit is real garbage regardless. Just be glad is wasn't your BB. That's how I would feel anyway, and would not have put in that extra bet. The hand has absolutely no where to go. 4 POKER | ||
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| Re: 10-3 offsuit in the Small Blind, PairTheBoard, 9. Jul 2003 19:12 | ||
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| I guess the chance of a raise by the BB is a factor. I've been playing in some super loose 2-4 games where there may be ever more limpers. With 5 or 6 limpers and practically no raising preflop - so pretty safe from a BB raise - it's hard for me to think of any hand not worth half a bet. lol | ||
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| Re: 10-3 offsuit in the Small Blind, Big_Slick, 9. Jul 2003 19:44 | ||
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| The type of cards you play in the SB is going to depend a lot on the price of admission. Do you need to put up 1/3, 1/2 or 2/3 bet? Obviously, you can play a lot more cards from the SB (and should) at 1/3 of a bet than if you had to throw in 2/3. That being said, 10-3 is absolute trash and will lose you money over the long run no matter how many players are seeing the flop. This is a case where a bad play turns lucky and introduces a bad habit. Blind play is a major leak for a lot of players. I know it was for me for a long time. | ||
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| Re: 10-3 offsuit in the Small Blind, Schuster, 9. Jul 2003 20:31 | ||
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| I agree 100% with slick. I wouldn't play this hand if it were down to me and the big blind, and I wouldn't play this hand if everyone else limped. The more people limp, the more people you have to beat. Don't use pot odds to justifty playing bad cards, it was a leak in my game for a long time too. Lee | ||
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| Re: 10-3 offsuit in the Small Blind, mkpoker, 9. Jul 2003 22:29 | ||
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| On the subject, Sklansky writes: From the SB "If the fraction to enter a pot is 1/2 a bet, you should still be soemwhat selective of the hands you play, though you should play loose. For example, hands like 86 or any two suited cards, or any ace (if the pot is short handed) are all probably right to call with. But hands like J2 should still be thrown away." At least in Slanksy's view, you should be mucking the T3. However, he goes on to note that if you only have to put in 1/3 of a bet, you should always call, no matter what. | ||
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| Re: 10-3 offsuit in the Small Blind, Mark, 10. Jul 2003 08:03 | ||
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| Oddly enough, I would rather play complete trash than a hand like Ax or Kx from the SB. I also like connectors and 1 gappers, but with the Ax I can see alot of ways to lose a big pot. I know the hand is trash and i know that i have to hit the flop HARD in order to keep playing, but isn't this a similar situation to holding a small pair in a raised pot (pre-flop). Some pro's advocate calling a raise cold with small pairs in late position if there are enough callers in front of you, knowing the only a way to win the hand is to flop a set or better, or bluff. Personally, i liken the two situations. I know that a small pair is better than trash, but you only have to pay 1/2 price admission in the small blind. Anyway, thanks for the input. I'm going to keep trying my Small Blind Experiments for a little while longer. I will probably tighten up considerably in a $5-10 game where the SB is only 2/5. Mark | ||
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| Re: 10-3 offsuit in the Small Blind, Jav, 10. Jul 2003 10:47 | ||
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| The key about playing small pairs against a raise with enough callers is that you are in late position. In the SB, even if noone else hits a flop you're probably going to have to fold to a late position better. | ||
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| Re: 10-3 offsuit in the Small Blind, Big_Slick, 10. Jul 2003 12:35 | ||
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| I know the hand is trash and i know that i have to hit the flop HARD in order to keep playing, but isn't this a similar situation to holding a small pair in a raised pot (pre-flop). Some pro's advocate calling a raise cold with small pairs in late position if there are enough callers in front of you, knowing the only a way to win the hand is to flop a set or better, or bluff. Even if you do manage to make trips with your unpaired cards (anyone know the odds?), you're assuming that the hand is going to hold up and win. What about the times that you throw in 5 or 6 bb's with your set only to lose the hand? Lets not even talk about flopping a full house. That is just too rare to even consider. You need to remember that pros are playing against other pros and people like you and me are playing against house wife's at party poker. So you can pretty much forget about bluffing unless you are certain someone is trying to fill a straight or a flush (and they miss, of course). But that means having to play the hand through to the river. Another bad idea. There is a huge advantage to starting a hand with a pair rather than 2 crap cards like 10-3. With a pair, I believe your chances of flopping a set are roughly 5:1. I have no idea what it is with unpaired cards. However, it has to be high enough to make playing hands like 10-3 unprofitable over the long run. So yes, your only chance with small pairs is to flop a set on the flop. Although, it never ceases to amaze me how many people will play their pair to the river hoping to hit their set. Also, always remember what a disadvantage you are in being first to act from the small blind. That is a factor that many players underestimate. Good luck with your small blind experiment! | ||
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