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Server Time: 11/21/2008 5:58:14 PM PACIFIC |
 Okay, trying AGAIN to paste in comments about WSOP on ESPN, Easy E, 8. Jul 2003 20:17 | ||
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| Day 1 of the 2003 WSOP WARNING- there are several spoilers in here. If you haven't seen the ESPN show yet, or if you flew in from another planet and don't know anything about the 2003 Series results, do NOT continue! Did Robert Varkonyi give a mini-clinic on how NOT to play AA on that first hand, in early position? Sure seemed as if he gave up some possible equity on the turn with the flush out there... and the 4-flush that no one took a shot at on the river. Not sure, but I think I like the deck shuffling graphic as an action break. May get monotonous, may not Is RV holding AA up his sleeve? Wow.... The pro player commentator's "Varkonki is treating Aces like diseased cards" was a good one- Vince van Patton! Start taking some notes! However, neither one commented on Robert smartly raising, using his previous AA play to allow the raise to be called. What the HELL was Robert V checking his Aces for when the 3 diamonds were on the board? Is this 1st round tight play or incredibly wimpy NL poker? The hand suits in the graphic were a little hard to read on my TV- anyone else? Or am I just old? The changing "percentage favorite" graphic was an interesting one, but didn't get enough of an explanation (as to how hand values can change).... But I guess, much like the WPT, the show is geared towards non-players. After those two AA hands with the four-flush boards that RV was in, WHY did the guy call Robert's bet with AKoff and 4 diamonds on board? Had we seen him bluff at one yet? RV made a nice bluff-inducing check on the river with one hand against Tom H. If Tom goes all in earlier, can RV call him? Robert Varkonyi's bio- getting a LITTLE cocky there, Phil H wannabe? JP Massier is Robert's coach, eh? Anyone have a good/bad ranking on that? Also, I couldn't make out the title on the spiral notebook they were using- what did it say? Well, the bio proved Robert is a major computer nerd. Does it detract from his image? Or can't it, after the WSOP win last year? STILL no hand count graphic or clock/time info? Occasional comments, such as the "about an hour" comment during Phil H's dramatic (and planned) entrance, are our only indication of time passing.... Hopefully they'll bring the hands/time back for the final table! Anyone think Phil H's late entrance tradition is more about attention than any true strategy gain? No ranting about the announcers yet. The ESPN guy is... a typical ESPN guy, out of his depth, if he IS an ESPN guy. The player/reporter wasn't bad. If they had cameras under the table, why didn't they show all of the cards like WPT? Deliberate differentiation from WPT? Time editing? And I assume they only had rail cameras on the TV table, but they did bounce around to grab some of the "famous" player bustouts. Speaking of which, did they arrange the makeup of the TV table, or was that the random draw that was moved to that table? Lot of heavy hitters there.... could be an action TV table arrangement! Audit the code! Robert V bets A2d into J34 board.... Zimmerman calls with pair. Flush draw and Zimmerman DOESN'T bet to put pressure on? Doyle's bio- he didn't come off as arrogant to me (good thing)- you'd think he'd be SICK of his book by now, since he complains about writing it. Well, guess he can make money by promoting it.... R Zimmerman has ANOTHER 77? What, everyone gets to pick a hand and get it back X times a day? Did anyone NOT see Doyle's raise with T2off coming? TV move, or strategy? How could Mr. Aggressive NL Master NOT bet the 5c turn, if not the JAT flop? And NO one takes a shot on the river? Is the first round ALWAYS this tight? Or maybe that's just the pros, since 200 people were out the first hour or so (wow!) 9:20- 3rd set of commercials.... Arrrghhhhh... guess I should just get used to it, Oh god, the bio of my least favorite celebrity poker player.... Phil only berates people "sometimes"??? There's Phil, trying desperately to appear modest... but he JUST CAN'T HELP HIMSELF! My friend's comment, later in the show- "Phil LOOKS like a dick- I could just SLAP him!". Couldn't have said it better myself.... I have a new poker goal- win my way into the WSOP and be the person who knocks Phil H out! Preferably with a junk hand! I'd probably just dump all of my chips into the board and leave then- I'd have MY title!!! Doyle's comment was amusing- "Doyle, is Phil as good as he thinks he is?" "No... but he's pretty good" QJ6J board and RV and RZ both dump when Doyle bets after checking the flop.... wimpy wimpy WIMPY! The production has an interestingly informal atmosphere- cozy, even, in direct contrast to the "Who wants to be a Poker Millionaire?!?" phases of the WPT shows. I think it fits in well with the first day of the 5-day tournament.... though I'm sure it doesn't capture the chaos of 800 players very well. Robert doesn't raise two limpers with his KQoff... then lucks out with the 2-pair flop. And the show seems to skip a LOT of the "how much was the raise?" info that they should have. Doyle- you DESERVED to get sucked out on with the 4-flush river, when you let RV hang in there on your made turn flush. Of course, I don't know what the CHIP STACKS WERE, so I can't make a guess as to whether an all-in move by DB would have been enough to get Robert's 2-pair, flush-draw out of the pot..... Probably not, but RV was playing pretty cautiously. 9:30- ANOTHER commercial break... sigh... I missed the Yoshi bustout with the 55 until the end- how did he and the AKs play that hand, quality-wise? Show more women players besides Jen H and Anne Duke! Now I'm starting to wonder about the atmosphere- a little TOO folksy? Should people be allowed to talk to a poker coach during the tournament play? I know, RV was out of the hand, but still- most people can't afford to have a poker coach. Doyle's all in call with K9h against Padrig's T$6K raise of AKs- bad play or chip stack problem by Doyle? Now I'm thinking that the lack of a clock isn't a big deal for day 1, given the volume of players and the bounce-outs. Hey, a chip count graphic when Phil Ivey is shown again! But it's too small.... Anyone get the first thought, similar to mine, that the Chris Ferguson bio should have been titled "Jesus- Trained Poker Monkey"? Can't decide if I liked Chris spoofing himself a little, or disliked the image that I reacted to when he did his parlor tricks (neat though those tricks were).... I think poker has made me WAY too cynical!! Kim CHECKS the AQT flop with a set of Queens, after raising pre-flop? Then only calls Scotty N's raise on the turn with AcQT9c? And then CALLS on the river when the flush comes for Scotty? Is it just me, or did we just see ANOTHER badly misplayed big hand? Don't you HAVE to make an aggressive move on the turn? Or am I again not appreciating the Zen of the First Day? The pro/writer's "digging own grave" comment was either very apropos or misleading, depending on what you see the turn move as being. I was REALLY surprised by Scotty's play and eventual fold to Robert with AJoff vs. RV's 97c. Scotty only calls on the Jc2sKd flop? Good brief "drawing dead" explanation by the pro/writer (what was his NAME?). And Robert's T$3K river bet when the 4 came and the board was J2KQ4 gets Scotty to fold, when he should have taken the pot on the flop! Great bet by Robert- or was it desperation bet by RV? 500 players eliminated on the first day... wow. I guess all of the harsh "dead money" comments during that "Dead Money Walking" piece were more on than I thought! Does anyone think that the dead money comment about Maureen, a WPT final table player, was a shot at WPT? His comment about Chris Moneymaker as dead money was amusingly ironic, don't you think? NICE tattoo on the air traffic controller- liked the King, especially. I missed the comment, but thought I heard the pro/writer say Johnny Chan has a tell? Did the 88 underbet the pot when the 976 flop came? Or was RV unlucky that the straight came, since the river Ace would have made him a winner? Hey! It's the ESPN version of the WPT's 10:58 rule! Guess Robert's going out with KK vs. AA. And if Robert was SO smart to read Scotty for an American Airlines, why the HELL wasn't he folding? My friend's comment "Did you forget about that thing called a FOLD?". Robert's exit comment "I was hoping (he) had something else" was a perfect epitaph- when you HOPE at poker, you're a DOPE at poker! My friend thought Scotty N looked sick at that table. So did I, as if SN was suffering from cancer therapy or something. Was SN okay? Well, interesting first show. WPT has it beat for the amount of poker shown and showing all of the hands. ESPN's production has more interest stories without being smarmy (at least to me), and the pro/writer's comments weren't bad. Other than the harsh "dead money" segment, nothing incendiary that I picked up on. Well, on to next Tuesday! Easy E | ||
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| Re: Easy E's WSOP on ESPN (with spoilers!!!), Risky Business, 9. Jul 2003 08:22 | ||
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| I learned a ton from this show..........which helps me understand how a 'nobody' can go in and play the tourney without experience. No big timers particularly like getting into the big pots unless that have a top hand, and I mean TOP. Bluffs are one thing, but you don't want to get punked on Day 1. They understand it's a war of attrition, you don't seem to. I'm not dogging you, I don't know any better, but your comments are better suited for a 1-day tourney where someone might actually remember your action later on, not an 800 person, 5-day tourney where everyone's trying to stay alive and build a mediocre stack. They said 500 people went out on Day 1. That is unreal!!!! Jen got no cards (so she says) and got booted. Annie says she got her cards in the nick of time. Same with Jesus. I liked seeing that old bag and her husband drop 20 grand in 8 hours. I wish they would have shown the first person to go out, but the production was such that they had walking cameras on the floor, and hole card cameras on the "featured" table, so it'll be a crapshoot finding good action on the floor. Is that event non-smoking??? If not, those lights were great. | ||
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| Re: Easy E's WSOP on ESPN (with spoilers!!!), stdioh, 9. Jul 2003 10:44 | ||
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| The crew from Gutshot tried to interview the first guy to bust out. Their claim was that they were afraid to chase him across the freeway :) | ||
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| Re: Okay, trying AGAIN to paste in comments about WSOP on ESPN, MozMan, 9. Jul 2003 08:27 | ||
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| I just want to know why I can't find the damn show. I looked all over ESPN and ESPN2 last night, and looked forward through all of today and all I see are baseball games and Sportcenter... ugh... -Moz "The reports of my assimilation are greatly exaggerated." | ||
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| Re: Okay, trying AGAIN to paste in comments about WSOP on ESPN, stdioh, 9. Jul 2003 10:45 | ||
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| It should be on ESPN2 tonight at 10:00 EST. | ||
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| Re: Okay, trying AGAIN to paste in comments about WSOP on ESPN, MozMan, 9. Jul 2003 19:24 | ||
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| No such luck. I saw it today in the channel guide, but the Jays-Sox game is still on... oh, well. -Moz "The reports of my assimilation are greatly exaggerated." | ||
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| Re: Okay, trying AGAIN to paste in comments about WSOP on ESPN, MozMan, 9. Jul 2003 20:16 | ||
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| Hey! They started it from the beginning after the ballgame was over. kewl. -Moz "The reports of my assimilation are greatly exaggerated." | ||
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| Re: Okay, trying AGAIN to paste in comments about WSOP on ESPN, ncskiier, 10. Jul 2003 07:35 | ||
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| so when is it going to air again? | ||
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| Re: Okay, trying AGAIN to paste in comments about WSOP on ESPN, stdioh, 10. Jul 2003 13:42 | ||
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| At least they didn't carve into the show - they just delayed it by half an hour. I was happy to see the jays lose by one point, even though they are my team. I just wanted the damn hell game to end. I really didn't want to see them tie it up in the bottom of the ninth. Of course a game winning home run would have been better than the strike out. | ||
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| Re: Okay, trying AGAIN to paste in comments about WSOP on ESPN, MozMan, 10. Jul 2003 13:46 | ||
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| :) As a Yankee fan, I would rather have seen the Jays win that particular game under any circumstances. Any day the Sox lose is a good day for a Yankee fan. -Moz "The reports of my assimilation are greatly exaggerated." | ||
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| Re: Okay, trying AGAIN to paste in comments about WSOP on ESPN, stdioh, 9. Jul 2003 10:43 | ||
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| The day you fold aces up with a nut flush draw on the turn, let me know. | ||
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| Re: Okay, trying AGAIN to paste in comments about WSOP on ESPN, Easy E, 9. Jul 2003 14:37 | ||
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| on 9. Jul 2003 10:43 stdioh wrote: > The day you fold aces up with a nut flush draw on the turn, let me know. Stdioh, I went back through my post, but couldn't find what your backhand was in reference to. Care to enlighten me, please? | ||
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| Re: Okay, trying AGAIN to paste in comments about WSOP on ESPN, stdioh, 9. Jul 2003 16:15 | ||
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| Of course, I don't know what the CHIP STACKS WERE, so I can't make a guess as to whether an all-in move by DB would have been enough to get Robert's 2-pair, flush-draw out of the pot..... Probably not, but RV was playing pretty cautiously. In all fairness, I haven't watched it yet (watching it tonight) so I might have misunderstood the scenario. Also, my tone of voice wasn't clear. Not a backhand. Just that I don't think many players would fold aces up with a nut flush draw on that turn since they have 4 outs to tight as well as the flush outs and the thought that they could very well be good already. | ||
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| Re: Okay, trying AGAIN to paste in comments about WSOP on ESPN, Easy E, 9. Jul 2003 19:08 | ||
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| on 9. Jul 2003 16:15 stdioh wrote: > Of course, I don't know what the CHIP STACKS WERE, so I can't make a guess as to whether an > all-in move by DB would have been enough to get Robert's 2-pair, flush-draw out of the pot..... > Probably not, but RV was playing pretty cautiously. > > In all fairness, I haven't watched it yet (watching it tonight) so I might have misunderstood > the scenario. > > Also, my tone of voice wasn't clear. Not a backhand. Just that I don't think many players > would fold aces up with a nut flush draw on that turn since they have 4 outs to tight as well > as the flush outs and the thought that they could very well be good already. Since it was kings up, not aces up, would that make a difference on day 1 of WSOP in your mind? Tell me after you see Robert's play in general, and the hand in particular | ||
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| Re: Okay, trying AGAIN to paste in comments about WSOP on ESPN, stdioh, 10. Jul 2003 13:44 | ||
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| It makes a big difference when it is kings. Your flush draw is nolonger the nut flush for starters. | ||
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| So, kings up and backdoor flush, you MIGHT, Easy E, 12. Jul 2003 09:58 | ||
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| ...think about folding if someone moved in..... ? | ||
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| Re: Okay, trying AGAIN to paste in comments about WSOP on ESPN, Lottery Larry, 10. Jul 2003 19:10 | ||
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| wow. don't you have anything better to do? | ||
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| No more than YOU do, evidently...., Easy E, 12. Jul 2003 09:57 | ||
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| ain't it fun? | ||
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