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Server Time: 11/21/2008 5:55:56 PM PACIFIC |
 Phils Book, WilliamS, 8. Jul 2003 09:41 | ||
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| I purchased Phils book last week and have been skipping around in it. The play he describes for limit holdem is much different than the way I have been playing. (Obviously, he is a much more successful player than myself) What are you guys' opinions of the ideas expressed in his book? | ||
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| Re: Phils Book, Paul Stine, 8. Jul 2003 11:03 | ||
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| on 8. Jul 2003 09:41 WilliamS wrote: > I purchased Phils book last week and have been skipping around in it. The play > he describes for limit holdem is much different than the way I have been > playing. (Obviously, he is a much more successful player than myself) What are > you guys' opinions of the ideas expressed in his book? Like you I have been skipping around in the book. I think Phil's book can make you a small fortune, especially if you start with a large one. Seriously, the style Phil describes relies on having a large bankroll (because you are going to see some big big swings) and on being able to make some pretty tough decisions because of the places that you will find yourself in playing his way. I think he greatly overestimates the ability of beginners to get away from a hand after they have invested (by Phil's way, a lot) in it and the number of opponents in the typcial low limt hand. That said, playing only the 10 hands he reccomends (for beginnners) will keep you from getting involved very often. Paul Stine College Station, TX | ||
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| Re: Phils Book, mroban, 8. Jul 2003 12:08 | ||
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| I love Phil's book and his style but it has not worked that well for me. After reading his book I immediately went into the tank and gave back a huge chunk of my hardearned bankroll. In limit poker I have gone back to playing more of a style that I am comfortable with which is more based on my repeated readings of Sklansky combined with my own instincts and knowledge about the players I am playing against. In short, Phil's book can be dangerous if not read VERY carefully and if taken out of context. The idea of betting small pairs pre-flop, missing the flop and betting into a multi way pot out of position is just not a profitable play (IMHO) in most low limit games. At least not for me. As some people in this forum have suggested in the past, its best read as a change of pace way of playing, rather than adopting it as regular strategy. I have reread many sections of the book and it occurs to me that I was taking some of his suggestions a bit out of context, especially with regard to the "marginal play hands". He does refer to them as "marginal" which means they shouldn't always be played (meaning pairs 66 and smaller, KQ and Ax suited). He says these aren't strong hands but he suggests an aggressive style of playing them IF you choose to do so under certain circumstances. Most of the time his aggressive play suggestions require playing against a "jackal" type or "elephant" type (maniacs and calling stations). So, it really requires a knowledge of your opponent fitting these player types before you use his aggressive style. However, raising preflop with 77 and 88 is also very dangerous and I have not had positive results trying that. I still feel that those hands are most powerful played in late position against a bunch of callers. Having position after the flop with those hands is really important. Just my humble opinion. Phil is an awesome player and one of my idols. | ||
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| Re: Phils Book, stdioh, 8. Jul 2003 14:46 | ||
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| His style is very uncommon. It works well for him, but I don't think that it is for everybody. I'm thinking of those truely great athletes you see sometimes with weirld little nihilistic styles. For example, when I used to compete in Tae Kwon Do, I would fight with my hands down. To explain my reasoning would take pages upon pages and wouldn't make sense to anybody without a solid martail arts background, but the long story short is that I developed my game around this style and it worked extremely well for me. One reason being that I could take a headshot well and had never been knocked out. Head shots and body shots score the same points, but body shots are easier to deliver and hence more valuable to guard against - if you don't have a glass jaw. I was also extremely short for my weight class (6' tall and heavyweight so fighting with giants) so my fight was up close where head shots become difficult to throw. The analogy extended to poker would be a loose agressive style. I'm getting away from poker though. Phil is an excellent poker player with a totally anachronistic style and while you could mimic the weird style and try to play as well as he does like he does, I think most players are much better off learning the standard approach to poker and not developing non-standard styles until they are good enough to get away with them. If I were teaching you to fight, I'd be telling you to keep your hands up too. | ||
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| Re: Phils Book, Mark, 8. Jul 2003 16:07 | ||
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| the thing about phil is (i think) he reads people extremely well. This means he can play more aggressively on average, because he also knows whent to fold. The play suggested in his book focuses on reading people (which he doesn't stress enough). I have changed my play becuase of his book, and have seen an improvement. I don't think Phil is used to playing agaisnt the passive calling stations frequently encountered at the low limit online tables. So when Phil advocates raising with 2nd pair on the flop, he doesn't have these calling stations in mind. You have to adjust your play for these marginal situations when you KNOW you will be called down. Mark | ||
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| Re: Phils Book, palman, 8. Jul 2003 17:38 | ||
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| actually watched phil play 80/160 omaha on UB... and he won 4 grand in 10 minutes, I've never seen domination like that..... omaha is easy in a full ring game, or easier, but 5 handed its more skill, and I saw hm win EVERY pot he was involved in except one. | ||
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| Re: Phils Book, Christian Damo, 8. Jul 2003 19:40 | ||
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| What's Phil's handle on UB? | ||
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| Re: Phils Book, 4 POKER, 8. Jul 2003 19:53 | ||
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| I think he uses his real name. | ||
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| Re: Phils Book, Risky Business, 9. Jul 2003 07:59 | ||
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| I saw his name on another site, and thought it was lame that someone was using his name. I guess I'm just not very gullible. Somebody could be using his name, or any others, as a power play. on 8. Jul 2003 19:53 4 POKER wrote: > I think he uses his real name. | ||
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| Re: Phils Book, stdioh, 9. Jul 2003 11:20 | ||
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| It is PhilHellmuth | ||
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| Re: Phils Book, stdioh, 9. Jul 2003 11:21 | ||
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| Dave Ulliot plays on UB using the name Devil Fish, but I can't remember if he has a space in it or not and unfortunately there are a bunch of players there with similar names muscling in on his racket. | ||
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| Re: Phils Book, TKarrde, 9. Jul 2003 11:31 | ||
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| There is no space. Just check your Ultimate Buddy! :) I've seen him play once before. People were bothering him with stupid questions. But last time I saw Phil play only the players could chat. Obsevers were not allowed to. on 9. Jul 2003 11:21 stdioh wrote: > Dave Ulliot plays on UB using the name Devil Fish, but I can't remember if he has a space in it or not > and unfortunately there are a bunch of players there with similar names muscling in on his racket. TKarrde "You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never to get involved in a land war in Asia. And only slightly less well known is this: never go in against a Sicilian (Mozman) when death is on the line!" | ||
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