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Server Time: 11/21/2008 6:13:59 PM PACIFIC |
 Legality of Poker, fighter59, 7. Jul 2003 08:41 | ||
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| We've all played in our "friendly" poker games for small change. Is all poker illegal? If you host a game, but don't take any money for doing so, is that illegal? I live in Indiana, so I'm sure it varies by state and municipality. Any comments? | ||
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| Re: Legality of Poker, asnyder, 7. Jul 2003 09:39 | ||
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| Hello fellow Hoosier, According to Indiana Code 4-33-10-1, it states that placing or accepting a wager at any location other than a riverboat is a Class A misdemeanor. You can access the Indiana Code with the following link: http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title4/ar33/index.html Is it skill, gambling, or both? This is a subject of great debate. Oh by the way, I won't tell if you don't. | ||
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| Re: Legality of Poker, Dr_Monkey, 7. Jul 2003 10:15 | ||
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| 4-33-1-1 says that Article 33 only applies to counties touching Lake Michigan, the ohio River, and Patoka Lake. So if you aren't in one of these counties you are safe. Actually, I think you are safe because Title 4 Article 33 refers to only Riverboat gambling. They would be hard press to apply this to anyone's home game. Since wager isn't defined in the article, you would have to look to case law to find out what it means. on 7. Jul 2003 09:39 asnyder wrote: > Hello fellow Hoosier, > > According to Indiana Code 4-33-10-1, it states that placing or accepting a wager at > any location other than a riverboat is a Class A misdemeanor. You can access the > Indiana Code with the following link: > > http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title4/ar33/index.html > > Is it skill, gambling, or both? This is a subject of great debate. > > Oh by the way, I won't tell if you don't. | ||
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| Re: Legality of Poker, stdioh, 7. Jul 2003 10:53 | ||
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| Generally speaking, if you aren't profiting by hosting the game (taking a rake or time charge or admission fee) then nobody will get their knickers in a twist over it. | ||
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| Re: Legality of Poker, PokerDude, 7. Jul 2003 15:57 | ||
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| What if you take a nominal fee for table maintanence and purchase of new cards? Officially Licensed Dude | ||
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| Re: Legality of Poker, Risky Business, 8. Jul 2003 07:06 | ||
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| Dude - I would suggest you go ahead and buy the drinks, hire the waitstaff, provide the snacks, order in dinner, and just take a normal rake. You're splitting hairs. Are you not doing it because you like to? If you're worried about $15 for a dozen decks of Bellagio cards (on ebay), or "felt replacement costs", which costs pennies over a few months time........then let someone else hold the game. To a prosecutor, brand new cards and nice pretty felt do not affect the ability to play the game; therefore, are unnecessary. (Personally, I only raked once, before my friends realized what that meant. I enjoy the thrill of running my own game, educating those that want to learn, so I'll bust out $15 on felt, and $15 on cards once every few months) on 7. Jul 2003 15:57 PokerDude wrote: > What if you take a nominal fee for table maintanence and purchase of new cards | ||
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| Re: Legality of Poker, timmer, 8. Jul 2003 08:06 | ||
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| on 7. Jul 2003 15:57 PokerDude wrote: > What if you take a nominal fee for table maintanence and purchase of new cards? You cant take squat however if the players give you some money then thats another story. > Officially Licensed Dude | ||
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| Re: Legality of Poker, stdioh, 9. Jul 2003 11:38 | ||
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| Nope...as soon as there is a fee, you are in trouble. Now people have gotten away with a "suggested" fee for this sort of thing. If you have a jar and suggest the players put in a couple of bucks then you aren't technically charging a fee and you aren't breaking the law, but anybody who doesn't put in will be seen to be a cheapo. You're also not allowed to make a profit on food and drinks, but I think it is ok to recoup your costs. When I had home games I had a beer policy that went beer #1 is free and after that they cost a buck. Since in Canada a 2-4 of beer costs about $30 I was marginally losing money on the beer, but it meant that I could afford to provide subsidized beer and here I'm pretty sure I was inside the law. | ||
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| Re: Legality of Poker, TKarrde, 8. Jul 2003 09:37 | ||
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| I am from Indiana too. I researched it once and you CAN host home poker games as long as there is no rake, fee, etc. from doing so. Wish i could remember the site I found it on as it listed ALL the states and the rules that apply to each. (Obviously I was going on someone else's interpretation.) So, fighter and snyder... any of you guys from the south? TKarrde "You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never to get involved in a land war in Asia. And only slightly less well known is this: never go in against a Sicilian (Mozman) when death is on the line!" | ||
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| Re: Legality of Poker, asnyder, 8. Jul 2003 10:07 | ||
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| Sorry TK, I'm north central. The Muncie/Marion area. Wouldn't mind driving though. | ||
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| Search the Archives for a post by me, Easy E, 7. Jul 2003 10:11 | ||
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| a while ago about this topic- had a state by state listing of what I can find. I may have updated it recently, the original was about a year ago. I'm adding the Indiana info above to my list. primarily, it's state by state. Most don' t allow rakes, if they do allow the games. However, it's rarely prosecuted or even pursued, from what I've seen, unless you're operating an illegal club. | ||
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| Re: Search the Archives for a post by me, Risky Business, 7. Jul 2003 10:22 | ||
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| FYI: August 23rd of last year was your original post date. The Texas Penal Code provides a defense to prosecution for gambling if (1) the game is conducted in a private place, (2) no person receives any economic benefit other than personal winnings, and (3) except for the advantage of skill or luck, the risks of losing and the chances of winning are the same for all players. No idea about on-line stuff. The cops always get some airtime on the news when they bust up a slot machine room that pays off in cash (not legal here). Notice that the Penal Code discusses the games, i.e. the house, but not the players. It is my understanding that when these places get busted, the players walk, but the organizers don't. | ||
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| Re: Search the Archives for a post by me, Easy E, 7. Jul 2003 10:33 | ||
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| Don't they lose all of their money, though? As in, it's seized? | ||
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| Re: Search the Archives for a post by me, Risky Business, 7. Jul 2003 10:35 | ||
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| No seizure that I'm aware of, and they probably only keep a days worth of loot hanging around. It's not a felony, it's a misdemeanor (until the counts pile up). They get a fine. (The one thing any casino can handle.) Enough instances, and someone gets to go to the pen. on 7. Jul 2003 10:33 Easy E wrote: > Don't they lose all of their money, though? As in, it's seized? | ||
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| Re: Search the Archives for a post by me, stdioh, 7. Jul 2003 10:55 | ||
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| I don't think so. You'd be hard pressed to get time in a pennitentiary for running a gaming house. For sure you'd only get reformatory time for multiple offences. | ||
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| Re: Search the Archives for a post by me, Risky Business, 7. Jul 2003 11:31 | ||
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| The accumulation of misdemeanor charges automatically makes misdemeanor offenses into felonies. Blatant disregard for the law won't stop prosecutors from trying these cases when they add up. The district/city attorney's office doesn't look good when they continually let them off the hook. That being said, what invariably happens is that the defense attorney makes an attractive offer to the state, so the charge will be entered into the court, rather than going to trial and getting off scott free. (Class A Mis, $2000 fine) Over time, these smaller charges add up. Then one day, the state catches them in an open and shut case......with all these priors stacked up, and you've got an organized crime felony charge (since more than 3 people are involved) and you're looking at 10 years for simply running a card room So what's the slant? Use different people, move to different locations, and misdemeanors don't add up because nobody is linked to anything. on 7. Jul 2003 10:55 stdioh wrote: > I don't think so. You'd be hard pressed to get time in a pennitentiary for running a gaming house. For sure you'd only get reformatory time for multiple offences. | ||
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| Re: Search the Archives for a post by me, stdioh, 9. Jul 2003 11:46 | ||
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| I'm not very boned up on American law, in all fairness. Up here it is very very easy. Section 197 of the Criminal Code is in relation to running a disorderly house which includes a common gaming house, common betting house, and common baudy house. A gaming house is a cardroom, a betting house is a book making operation, and a baudy house is a brothel. Getting caught operating a disorderly house has a theoretical maximum penalty of 2 years less a day in a provincal reformatory, however I've never heard of a first offence resulting in anything but probation. A second offence carries a minimum penalty of a week (I think) in the can and a third offence gets a minimum of 3 months in the can. I've never heard of anybody getting more than the minimum in these cases. On continual repeated offences, it probably continues to go up in general, but the most you can ever get is 2 years less a day. The nice catch is that in Canada if you are sentenced to do time in a provincial reformatory (federal penitentiaries are a very different story, but only for 2+ year sentences) and are not a "danger to society" ... as in you aren't likely to go out and hurt people, then you get to serve your time at home...which means that you aren't allowed to be anywhere but home and work/school and doing essential tasks (buying groceries, etc). So the long and short of it is that if you're caught, the worst thing that happens is that you are grounded. If you're caught still running a cardroom while you are grounded? You're still not a danger to society so they still can't lock you up. They can just sentence you to more reformatory time which means more time at home. In theory, you could never close your cardroom at all. | ||
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| Re: Search ... Florida law, Jaxen, 7. Jul 2003 23:03 | ||
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| In reference to the legality of home ring games ... Floridians will wanna pay attention ... We've had a home game for close to 2 years, and we keep the state statute number (849.085) handy just in case ... here's the skinny ... Any "penny ante game" is legal provided: -- It's held in a private residence -- you don't "advertise for players" (whatever) -- no rake or house cut -- the pot is no more than $10 ... if a cop is standing right over the table then we'd worry about it, so we've committed a small handful of unseen, unproveable misdemeanors ... but what Jeb Bush doesn't know can't hurt him, right? | ||
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| Re: Search ... Florida law, beigs, 8. Jul 2003 14:38 | ||
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| I'm guessing this is the reason the Indian casinos in Florida have a 10 dollar cap? It's the reason I'll never play there again. on 7. Jul 2003 23:03 Jaxen wrote: > In reference to the legality of home ring games ... Floridians will wanna pay attention > ... > We've had a home game for close to 2 years, and we keep the state statute number > (849.085) handy just in case ... here's the skinny ... > Any "penny ante game" is legal provided: > -- It's held in a private residence > -- you don't "advertise for players" (whatever) > -- no rake or house cut > -- the pot is no more than $10 ... if a cop is standing right over the table then we'd > worry about it, so we've committed a small handful of unseen, unproveable misdemeanors ... > but what Jeb Bush doesn't know can't hurt him, right? > | ||
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| Re: Search ... Florida law, stdioh, 9. Jul 2003 11:47 | ||
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| A friend of mine deals at Seminole. His opinion, which I fully believe, is that it is impossible to play there and be a winning player. Every pot hits $10 and they rake out $2.50! | ||
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